924Board.org

Phogphire1 · Joined: 05 Apr 2003 Posts: 293 Location: Portland, OR

Well I could'nt leave well enough alone. I Adjusted my air fuel mixture on the fuel dist. My car was starting and idle at about 900 rpm and then after reving it would stay at 1500-1800 RPM. I have checked for vaccum leaks. So I got a little to bold. I try to lean it up then richen it and also adjusted the idle screw. It died and would not start I lost track of how many turns when it died. I then tried to get the plate just level with bottom of the \_/ and just ending up screwing the mixture up completly and have no refernce point to start with or get the car running. Now it will not start. Does anyone know if you screw the 3mm all the way in and the back it out X times? I just need a place to get it to start (and run again) If no one knows is it easier to start rich or lean. I have seen all the adjustment when the car is running and @ Normal Oper temp. but nothing on non-starting.

Help
_________________
Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.

Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of thoose that dare screw with it.

jpab924 · Posted: Thu May 08, 2003 2:01 pm Post subject:

What I did: Jumpered the fuel pump relay to power up the fuel pump with the eng. not running. Turned the mix screw until I could hear the fuel running through the fuel distributor.-----you`ll hear it. The sound is very distinctive, almost like a little scream. From there I backed it off until I couldn`t hear it any more, started the car and played with the mixture a little from there. cw is rich and ccw is lean.

wdb · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 2024

too rich is better than too lean

924martinirossi · Posted: Thu May 08, 2003 2:49 pm Post subject:

I'm sitting here laughing because that happened to me earlier this year. Only my car would not restart away from home. I had to leave the car overnight in a parking lot.

I richened the mixture a little at a time untill I got the car started.

Throw a exhaust gas analyzer on it to dial it right on. There is a port in front of the cat (on my 81) to take the measurement at.

Michael

Phogphire1 · Joined: 05 Apr 2003 Posts: 293 Location: Portland, OR

Thank You so much I was'nt looking forward to turn 1/8th try starting turn an 1/8th try starting. esp since a remote starte is'nt real easy to hookup. I had to pull the plugs out and turn the crank over to empty three of cylinders of the fuel since the enginge did'nt want turn over aftered I jumpered the relay 87 to 31. Now back to finding the case of the erractic idle

_________________
Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.

Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of thoose that dare screw with it.

Phogphire1 · Joined: 05 Apr 2003 Posts: 293 Location: Portland, OR

AznDrgn · Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 3:14 am Post subject:

DON'T RUN LEAN!!! you'll just end up burning up stuff in the engine.
_________________
-'87 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L 6" of lift 33" Super Swampers

-'83 Callaway 944 2.5L turbo, 300HP, 1 of 42 ever made

Lizard · Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 3:29 am Post subject:

he really makes it sound like he is speaking from experiance

_________________
3 928s,

jpab924 · Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 4:26 am Post subject:

If memory serves me correctly, the decel valve leans the mixture on deceleration seeing that when you delcelerate, you create more manifold vacuum and the engine will suck in more fuel than is needed. Mainly an emissions device to keep hc levels down. If you are suspecting a vacuum leak at the decel valve, pinch off the vacuum hose that runs to it from the intake manifold.

Roger · Joined: 06 Jan 2003 Posts: 1235 Location: Cordova, TN

You can reindex the screw. Turn it counterclockwise until it stops. Do not force it. Then turn it 8 1/2 turns clockwise. It probably wont start since it is doubtfull that your CIS is within the original factory specs. With each attempt to start the car you should be able to go 1/2 turn clockwise. You probably have close to a full turn from a lean nonrunning to a ich nonrunning mixture. You should also reindex the idle screw 2/12 turns back from full clockwise. If you have an idle stabization circut disconect it also.

Make sure you are running rich! You are probably not familar with this air/fuel mixture yet. It is easy to adjust but if you run lean it can in extreme cases burn a hole in your piston. There are several procedures to adjust the mixture yourself its easy you just need to be familiar with the car. Sorry I dont have time to go into them I have a long road trip tomorrow. I have been through most of the system I will try to help post back with results.
_________________
1981 924 NA

Some people are like Slinkies. Not really good for anything, but you
still can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.

924martinirossi · Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 4:58 pm Post subject:

Well I couldn't leave well enough alone today either. Since my idle has been around 1200, I decided to crank it down using the idle screw. It didn't drop untill it was bottomed out, then the car died. I cranked it back out and started the car again and adjusted the A/F mixture CCW (lean) untill the rpm dropped, all seemed normal. I then zoomed up the hill to the store at at the first stop the car died. I spent several minutes turning the A/F mixture screw CW (rich) untill the car started again. I then pulled off the air intake temp sensor and the car dropped to about 900 rpm.

I'm keeping with the slightly higher idle with the air sensor connected.

Someone please check the idle of the car with the air intake sensor disconnected at cold start up, rpm drop with temp at first mark and rpm drop with temp at 2nd mark.

Michael

Phogphire1 · Joined: 05 Apr 2003 Posts: 293 Location: Portland, OR

It seems like I now have a cold start problem, and mini misfires through the RPM range, plus the rig is running a lotter hotter up between the 2nd and 3rd bar, I guess that I need to put in a new WUR. I think because it was idling so high before that it was compensting for the WUR.
_________________
Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.

Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of thoose that dare screw with it.

Roger · Joined: 06 Jan 2003 Posts: 1235 Location: Cordova, TN

I would not repalce your WUR without a CIS pressure test. I will warn you that if you bigin replacing parts hoping that it will correct your problem it going to cost you hundereds of dollars.

Its hard to tell from your post, please give more details about the symptoms. With the engine cold and hot. I do not think that this is the solution but its a good place to start. Also make sure that the timing is correctly set both before and after this procedure.

This was originaly posted by "gohim"

Adjusting the idle mixture isn't that hard to do. Some of you guys make it sound like it's a "Black Art".

First make sure that all the vacuum lines are in good condition, and none are disconnected or venting to the air.

If you have a later model with electronic idle stabilization, you need to disable it before trying to make any ignition timing, mixture or idle speed adjustments.

If the idle speed and mixture adjustments have been totally screwed up. Start from scratch. close the idle speed all the way down, then turn it out two complete turns.

Start the engine, adjust the idle mixture so the car will at least run well enough so it will warm up. Don't leave the allen wrech in the adjustment hole when you are checking the changes you have made. The weight of the wrench can influence the working of the throttle sensor plate. And don;t push down real hard for the same reason. The hole where the wrech goes in bleds enough air to throw the mixture adjustment off slightly, so you are going to want to reinstall the plug when you are done, and make a final check.

After the engine is warmed up, check to ignition timing first. Then set the idle speed. Then adjust the idle mixture from rich to lean making note of the range in which the adjustment can be rotated and the engine speed does not fall off, or rise significantly. Then set the mixture adjustment to the center of the range.

Check the idle speed. Is it correct?

If not, adjust the idle speed, then readjust the idle mixture adjustment to the center of the range.

Now blip the throttle. Does the engine speed rise smoothly, or bog down? If it bogs down, the mixture is too lean, and you need to adjust the mixture a little richer. Not too much, an 1/8 of a turn at a time can make a difference. I use an axtra long allen wrench, and pay attention to the handle at the top to keep track of how much I have rotated the adjustment.

Now go to the back of the car and look at the exhaust pipe. Can you see the exhaust coming out? What color is it? Blue smoke at idle, sorry, you have a worn engine. Black smoke, still too rich for some reason. Did you wait for the engine to warm up before starting? How does it smell? Like overheated metal? Bad cat, or too lean, maybe a cracked exhaust manifold. Does it smell like gas? Again too rich. Does your car have a O2 sensor? May be it's time for replacement.

See, that wasn't bad, was it?
_________________
1981 924 NA

Some people are like Slinkies. Not really good for anything, but you
still can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.

Phogphire1 · Joined: 05 Apr 2003 Posts: 293 Location: Portland, OR

All new vaccum hoses excpet to master clynder (when I removed the check valve (had good vac) the idle does'nt change when I press the brake down hard or pump it, I assume no leak here. No idle speed control just the decel valve I have eliminted that it works. ( I did a tune according to the FAQ's new ground etc, di-electric tune up grease. on all electrical I could find) No O2 sensor. 79 non CA. New intake boot. (old one broke @ aux air) Cleaned the plate with carb cleaner top & bottom \_/. New intank and pierburg external. New injectors. Cleaned the tank have and in-line hi flow filter between the pumps, and on the fuel return. What about the EGR?
Is there a test for the egr or a way to bypass?
_________________
Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.

Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of thoose that dare screw with it.

Roger · Joined: 06 Jan 2003 Posts: 1235 Location: Cordova, TN

Typicaly you can just plug the vacum lines for the EGR valve.

Do you have a solenoid or a frequency valve?
_________________
1981 924 NA

Some people are like Slinkies. Not really good for anything, but you
still can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.