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prophead
Joined: 12 Jul 2016
Posts: 32
Location: Falkirk, Scotland
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 Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:07 pm Post subject: Front camber setting for the track |
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Just wondering what camber and other front settings people are running on track / autocross cars.
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924 GT "8 Ball" track car project
944 Lux rolling project, nearly done |
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Cedric
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2806
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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It depends alot on what tyres you will be using and how stiff your suspenion is.
I ran maxed out up front, which is about -2,8 to -3 degrees at the front, at the rear i think -2, since I have no LSD I had to dial it back a bit. Toe is neutral up front and slightly in at the back, cant remember how much, have it on paper somewhere..
Tyres: michelin pilot sport cup 205/50/15"
350lb springs/28mm torsion bars, 28/22mm ARBs.
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1980 924 Turbo
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Carrera RSR
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 2312
Location: Somerset, UK
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:23 am Post subject: |
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Camber on mine was circa -2.8deg front and -2.5deg rear but got dialled back to 1.8 and -2 ish by Centre Gravity chassis set up last year. All depends on ride height, springs and shocks, ARB's etc. and whether you want any kind of road manners when not on track. Every positive action for a smooth track will have a negative reaction on a high speed bumpy surface and definitely on road
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11733
Location: PacNW
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:29 am Post subject: |
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2.5 is a fair starting point, but there are too many variables to set and forget. Best method is to take tire temperatures, and then make fine adjustments (camber plates?) to get your temps where you want them.
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Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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Fifty50Plus
Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 1422
Location: Washington DC area
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:55 am Post subject: |
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What Rasta says!
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1979 924 NA race car H-Prod SCCA
1982 924 NA race car - Sold
1981 924 Turbo sold
1982 924 Turbo sold
1972 911 E race car - traded for Cayenne Diesel
1975 914 1.8 Building for H-Prod SCCA |
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daniel
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 686
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:50 am Post subject: |
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How are you guys getting so much neg camber up front, I struggle to get to -2deg?
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Over the top of skyline, total brake failure.... hit the wall at over 200 kp/h at the dipper, so anyone who has to brake for the esses is a pussy.
1977.5 Race Car, CAMS Group S Spec
1989 944 Cabriolet |
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prophead
Joined: 12 Jul 2016
Posts: 32
Location: Falkirk, Scotland
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:51 am Post subject: |
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Thanks everyone. I asked basically for forward planning for the off season when I really get working on the 924 GT8 trackday car. However, I will be driving it quite a bit on road as well e.g. shows and club drive out days and the like.
That said I will be doing a few track sessions for the remainder of this summer season, getting to know the car and hopefully working on my driving.
The suspension setup at the moment is a bit of a mish mash just to get the car driveable and working. Rear suspension is pretty much completely standard right now all be it with new Sachs damper swapped off my 944. Its the early steel trialing arms and no rear sway (ARB) bar.
Up front I have Spax Coilovers, not sure what the spring rate is but have seen it mentioned in other forum posts as being 200lbs (I will call Spax direct to find out). These are currently set to the highest ride height and a medium damper setting in order to balance the rear as best as possible. Has front ARB, will need to measure it but looks to be either 20mm solid or 23mm hollow.
Front and back all bushes and mounts are standard and I have know idea whether any have ever been replaced (but very little play so ok for now).
Now, hear comes the slightly controversial bit, both front and rear track have been widened with the use of bolt on spacers and the PCD changed in order to use Jap spec wheels. The wheels are 18" 8.5J front and 10J rear running 225/40 F and 255/35 rear. Before you completely freak out on me, for those that dont know or have forgotten, this car has a baby V8 conversion making ~200bhp and #200ft-lbs torque and starts delivering that from as low down as 1500rpm.
What prompted this post was when I did my first track shakedown session I was getting front tyre tuck in medium speed corners (hence the camber question). However, I now think that was primarily down to a) bad front tyre that were b) too narrow for the wheel (they were 215/35). These have now been changed.
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Carrera RSR
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 2312
Location: Somerset, UK
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:40 am Post subject: |
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I think getting the shocks, springs, bushes, ride height, arb's and 17" wheels with good quality tyres all sorted, balanced and corner weighted will make more difference than whether the front camber is -1 or -2.5deg on its own. It needs a wholistic approach not piecemeal to the chassis set up.
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
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prophead
Joined: 12 Jul 2016
Posts: 32
Location: Falkirk, Scotland
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| Carrera RSR wrote: | | I think getting the shocks, springs, bushes, ride height, arb's and 17" wheels with good quality tyres all sorted, balanced and corner weighted will make more difference than whether the front camber is -1 or -2.5deg on its own. It needs a wholistic approach not piecemeal to the chassis set up. |
erm....thanks for that...I guess I didn't explain clearly enough in that last post ...the bit about forward planning for the off season and the reason for asking the question in the first place.
I'm pretty sure we are both on TIPEC and you would have seen my extensive restoration of my 944s suspension so I am fully aware of what is required to rebuild it for the road, but this is my first venture into a more track focused car. So am seeking advice and opinion as an when things occur to me. Apologies if this appears peace meal. Unfortunately I don't have a magic wand full of dollar bills or pound notes to implement an 'holistic' approach off the bat. I'm going to have to take stepping stones based on what I have to work with, improving what I can when I can, ideally with an ultimate goal / objective in mind.
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924 GT "8 Ball" track car project
944 Lux rolling project, nearly done |
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Carrera RSR
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 2312
Location: Somerset, UK
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| prophead wrote: | | Carrera RSR wrote: | | I think getting the shocks, springs, bushes, ride height, arb's and 17" wheels with good quality tyres all sorted, balanced and corner weighted will make more difference than whether the front camber is -1 or -2.5deg on its own. It needs a wholistic approach not piecemeal to the chassis set up. |
erm....thanks for that...I guess I didn't explain clearly enough in that last post ...the bit about forward planning for the off season and the reason for asking the question in the first place.
I'm pretty sure we are both on TIPEC and you would have seen my extensive restoration of my 944s suspension so I am fully aware of what is required to rebuild it for the road, but this is my first venture into a more track focused car. So am seeking advice and opinion as an when things occur to me. Apologies if this appears peace meal. Unfortunately I don't have a magic wand full of dollar bills or pound notes to implement an 'holistic' approach off the bat. I'm going to have to take stepping stones based on what I have to work with, improving what I can when I can, ideally with an ultimate goal / objective in mind. |
I rattled off the to do list as I can see it's a project car and is work in progress. It pays to put a plan in place of what, when and budget in place to get stuff done if it can't be completed all together.
Cheapest start is making sure all bushes, track rod ends, ball joints wheel bearings are good or replace them. Then get the car aligned on proper Hunter 4 wheel system by a tech who knows how to play with the rear end on our cars. This will get the car as good as can be. Then you have head room to look at suspension, arbs, ride heights etc with hindsight of a few months driving and track days. Many do go too track focused too soon at the detriment of road drivability, including myself.
One thing I would add is the wheels. No one on TIPEC supports 18'' wheels and super low profile tyres for fast road or track. They just don't add anything to the performance. They do support 16" for track use with a little more sidewall give. Only a few go with 17".
_________________
1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252 |
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prophead
Joined: 12 Jul 2016
Posts: 32
Location: Falkirk, Scotland
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| Carrera RSR wrote: | | prophead wrote: | | Carrera RSR wrote: | | I think getting the shocks, springs, bushes, ride height, arb's and 17" wheels with good quality tyres all sorted, balanced and corner weighted will make more difference than whether the front camber is -1 or -2.5deg on its own. It needs a wholistic approach not piecemeal to the chassis set up. |
erm....thanks for that...I guess I didn't explain clearly enough in that last post ...the bit about forward planning for the off season and the reason for asking the question in the first place.
I'm pretty sure we are both on TIPEC and you would have seen my extensive restoration of my 944s suspension so I am fully aware of what is required to rebuild it for the road, but this is my first venture into a more track focused car. So am seeking advice and opinion as an when things occur to me. Apologies if this appears peace meal. Unfortunately I don't have a magic wand full of dollar bills or pound notes to implement an 'holistic' approach off the bat. I'm going to have to take stepping stones based on what I have to work with, improving what I can when I can, ideally with an ultimate goal / objective in mind. |
I rattled off the to do list as I can see it's a project car and is work in progress. It pays to put a plan in place of what, when and budget in place to get stuff done if it can't be completed all together.
Cheapest start is making sure all bushes, track rod ends, ball joints wheel bearings are good or replace them. Then get the car aligned on proper Hunter 4 wheel system by a tech who knows how to play with the rear end on our cars. This will get the car as good as can be. Then you have head room to look at suspension, arbs, ride heights etc with hindsight of a few months driving and track days. Many do go too track focused too soon at the detriment of road drivability, including myself.
One thing I would add is the wheels. No one on TIPEC supports 18'' wheels and super low profile tyres for fast road or track. They just don't add anything to the performance. They do support 16" for track use with a little more sidewall give. Only a few go with 17". |
The follow up response is appreciated.
Unfortunately it looks like this season has come to a premature end as something broke in my clutch today. Very frustrating as the car has just flown through the MOT and I've just put a new set of tires on. On the bright side at least it happened on the way home from a show today, and not during the track session I had booked for tomorrow evening.
As I will be removing a lot of stuff to get to the clutch I guess it will a good opportunity to have an in depth look at the rear suspension.
Best laid plans and all that.....
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924 GT "8 Ball" track car project
944 Lux rolling project, nearly done |
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