924Board.org

[JosephK]

First, thanks to Peter for allowing me to rejoin this board. Its been a while since I've been on. Second, I've also posted this topic on the Renlist board - I'm looking for as much input as I can get so PLEASE don't be hating me ('')for the broad inquiry if you've seen it there.
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After aiming my attention to the DME after continuing unsuccessful attempts to start my dead stock '87 924S w/68k miles I am confronted with a question many of us will face over the coming years. I'm calling it the DME dilemma.

I spoke with Joshua at Rogue yesterday and he made his case for upgrading the cars computer to the new Rogue offering and I'm considering the upgrade to the "Google glass era" option from the "Apple II era" stock DME.

To justify the price of the Rogue unit, I have to consider if its $500 to $700 is it worth it to have a brain that will first and foremost upgrade the car's reliability as it will be made using modern technology far beyond what was available in the '87 electronic brain. I also have to ask, what would it cost to buy a new head unit and speakers? About the same. Finally, haven't we ALL upgraded our computers almost religiously and damn the price since the old list-serve days? Put another way, how many of you are still using your Comodore PETs or Apple II for daily computing?

Ultimately, reliability alone from this modern tech upgrade over the original wave soldered board (with a lean towards failure of its cold solder joints and the "burn out" potential - there are SO many warnings in the manual against electronic armageddon) tip the scales towards adoption. However, being an early adopter of any new technology has its risks too.

That risk particularly depends on the upgrade's maker and in this case that's Joshua. My discussion with him yesterday showed he was thoroughly saturated in the projects technical aspects, willing to share his experience and knowledge, and had a sincere sensitivity towards robust building for reliability's sake. He also owns these cars and has tested his new offering in his own vehicles. That says a LOT to me.

It costs $350 to have my original, old component, DME unit rebuilt which is half the likely target price range for a Rogue. But, if I do that, I will still have 27 year old components which have been stressed by whatever electrical faults have occurred over the years but have not burned out yet. Don't we continually upgrade our computers at home? What's different about our vehicles?

DISCLAIMER - I don't know Joshua and I've only spoken to him once. I don't own any stock in his company and have never touched any of his product or know anyone who has.

Please add your thoughts.

[edredas]

Hi, Joseph.

The problem with your analogy between the desktop computer and the DME is that today's programs use far more resources than they did years ago, and will continue to do so. Modern engine also are far more sophisticated and require high-tech computers to run it all, however our engines are very low tech, and unless you've modified it, it hasn't changed at all.

I mean, sure, you can make the DME smaller and perhaps more durable, but they're still doing the same calculations... and if you're a business, you don't buy the employees an iPad if all they really need is a cheap calculator.

That said, I think it's great what he has done, but keep in mind nothing is supposed to last 30 years, so if these DME need repairs, then that's life. Once repaired, they will probably last another 30 years, if not longer.

I like that he has incorporated the MAF socket, and allowed it to directly plug into our DME socket, but if I were looking to go high-tech then I would want sequential fuel injection, coil on plug ignition, and advanced engine tuning. That sort of stuff isn't possible with his DME. I respect that this might be exactly what others have been waiting on, but it's not for me...
_________________
'84 944 -White, Brown interior
'84 944 -Red, Automatic
'86 944 -Garnet, Fully loaded, Koni suspension
'87 924S -Red, 300hp 951 swap
'87 924S -Red, Project Car
'88 924S -Red, Daily Driver

[Rasta Monsta]

Motronic has to be one of the most reliable engine management systems of all time. If reliable is what you want, get your stock gear working right and you can forget about it forever.
_________________
Toofah King Bad

• WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3

[JosephK]

Thank you for the great perspectives. I was also looking at a newly engineered DMV as a better pathway to a performance enhancing chip. My understanding is that can be obtained without the new DME tech Joshua has ome up with. I'm also considering installing his 4° advanced woodruff key mod to improve low end torque and the mass air sensor to improve airflow. Idea being put the whole package and an ride!

[edredas]

Be weary that if I had said what I posted above on rennlist that my post would have been deleted, and I would be removed from the site. Unless you are praising a vendor, then you get booted and your posts erased. Asking them questions might bruise their fragile egos...

I am not saying anything bad about rogue tuning, I'm just making sure that you understand that not every vendor for the 944 is the expert they claim to be... so please keep that in mind before you open your wallet.
_________________
'84 944 -White, Brown interior
'84 944 -Red, Automatic
'86 944 -Garnet, Fully loaded, Koni suspension
'87 924S -Red, 300hp 951 swap
'87 924S -Red, Project Car
'88 924S -Red, Daily Driver

[JosephK]

I've not been as active on the Renlist or this board as many of the enthusiasts who participate are, but, I find both boards helpful when I'm sitting next to my car scratching the nether regions trying to figure out what has gone all ahoo. So, I'm not as familiar with the cultures as maybe I should be.

That said, 20 minute phone conversation with Joshua, which by the way was not initiated by anything I saw on either board, convinced me he was steeped in the tech and as I said in my post, put these mods in his own vehicles for testing long before he announced their existence.

Early adoption is always risky and one drivers "better" is oftentimes another's "worse". I'm certainly going to be very careful with this decision but the good news is even if I end up dropping another grand into the 924S for all of this stuff, I still end up with a ridiculously fun ride at 1/86 the cost of a new Tesla model S which are becoming the new Volkswagen Bug here in Silicon Valley.

[edredas]

I don't believe anyone on this forum is stuck in the "stock was best" mindset. My 924S is turbocharged, and if I thought that any of this stuff worked, I would be using it. The stock AFM isn't a problem until ~300 hp, and he buys the cam keys from 928 motorsports.

Again, I want to make it clear that I think Rogue does good work. However, if there are issues with other vendors products, you would never know because those voices are silenced.
_________________
'84 944 -White, Brown interior
'84 944 -Red, Automatic
'86 944 -Garnet, Fully loaded, Koni suspension
'87 924S -Red, 300hp 951 swap
'87 924S -Red, Project Car
'88 924S -Red, Daily Driver