924Board.org

[TaylorMantz]

Hello all, nice to be a part of your forum. I just bought my 1980 240 n/t model from D Hook and it is a beauty! I can't wait to get this baby running the way that it should be, so I'll explain my problem and hopefully someone will be able to help.

When I bought the car from Don yesterday, I made it about 5-6 miles before it started giving me troubles. The car stalled out at an intersection, and I lost all power to the point where the car wouldn't even turn over, it just made a click. I messed with the negative terminal for a second and got power back to the battery, and started it up again. I made it about another 3 miles until it stalled out again. That's when I realized that it runs fine when cold, but when it warms up it won't stay running. I got a ride home, waited an hour and a half, went back to the car and got it another 3 miles to my home.

So my first thought was that there is some sort of problem when the car gets hot.

Then I drove it this morning, just around the block a few times, probably less than a mile. Then I noticed smoke started coming from the fuse and relay panel to the left of the clutch inside of the car, and the back right corner of the hood on the corner outside of the car. Since the car was a few blocks away from my home, I tried using a small bit of starter fluid to get it back, but it just would not stay running.

I'm not exactly sure what was smoking, but it was definitely smelling like burnt wires. Since I had an extra relay, I tried putting in a new fuel pump relay, but the pump sounded like it was working with both relays, and the car would still not stay running with the new relay. According to my Haynes, all the other fuses and relays don't really have anything to do with anything that would keep the car from running.

Since my original problem was the negative battery terminal, I am going to replace the connector to the terminal tomorrow when I get the sunlight back, and clean off the negative battery terminal. I'll post an update tomorrow.


But I need your help 924 experts! I've only had mine for 24 hours! It'll fire up, but won't stay running for more than 2 seconds or if you touch the gas at all. So it was running yesterday, until the fuse/relay panel started smoking, now it won't run. I need to get this back home! Any advice would be great. Again, nice to meet all of you.


EDIT: Smells like the car is running kinda rich when it starts up for those few seconds.

[D Hook]

My first thought is that a loose connection on the fuel pump would cause the pump to pull more amps than it should, resulting in some overheated wiring. Or some "stuff" in the fuel tank that might be clogging the pump.

What kind of reading are you seeing on the volt gauge?

(As I mentioned to Taylor when we were gassing up the car, about 10-12 years ago I had the fuel tank out and a liner put in. A couple years back the car had a blockage in the fuel tank outlet and after clearing it (with the help of TCooper) using compressed air, it ran just fine. At the time, I was thinking the liner might be peeling off the inside of the tank and causing the outlet to be plugged because from what Taylor says, it sounds like a fuel starvation problem, along with a loose wire on the fuel pump, causing the pump to work very hard but still being able to get SOME fuel up to the engine.

The night Taylor picked it up, we went to put gas in. Is it maybe possible putting gas into the tank stirred up whatever it was that caused the blockage in the first place? Not sure.)

Get a good trouble light and check the wiring under the dash for anything melted. It's a bitch to do for us old fat guys but taking out the front seat and the steering wheel helps a lot. (Disconnect the battery first!)

You should pull the fuel pump down and check the terminals for tightness. The fuel pump only has about 100 miles on it so I doubt it's failing. But you want the electrical connections tight. I would be surprised it wouldn't blow a fuse before melting wires but you never know. Wouldn't hurt to check the fuse for the pump and be sure it's the correct amperage. I don't remember ever replacing it so it should be correct. The owner's manual (little red book) has a good layout of the fuses, as does the Haynes on the page we talked about on the phone.

When you get under the back of the car, you'll see a clear plastic cannister that's inline with the fuel hose. It's not a filter but just a round, clear piece. It should be full of gas when the car is running. Should see no cavitation or bubbles. If you do see bubbles, then there is definetley a blockage in the tank. That's what Tom and I observed when we were trouble shooting it. After clearing the blockage, the cannister was completely full of fuel when the car was running and had no bubbles, indicating a clear fuel flow.

If you find a blockage or partial blockage, I'd pull that tank out and get it cleaned and relined. Or replace it. (I know someone who has a tank I think he'll sell that's new.) Or you can pull the hose off the gas tank and blow compressed air to see if the blockage will clear. Be sure to remove the gas cap before you do that so the air has somewhere to go.

Hopefully someone else will chime in with other solutions or areas to check. 'Cause if none of that works, I'm out of ideas. I'm sure other members have had a similar problem though and hopefully can give more/better advice.

Strange thing is, the night you picked up the car, I had been giving test rides to some other potential buyers and they drove it and everything behaved just fine. So this is as much a mystery to me as it is to you. These cars never fail to surprise.

You're going to want to clean all and any electrical connections you can, too. The car has been sitting outside since October and moisture gets in the cabin and starts to corrode everything, causing poor connections. A few years ago, when I replaced the interior, I took everything out except the fuse panel and relay panel. Every connection and ground point got a good buffing and a dab of electrical (dialectic) grease. It made a world of difference in how it ran and how the gauges behaved. (Don't recall now where the fuel pump grounds to (brown wires) but I know there's a collection of ground wires in the hatch area, behind the driver's side tail light, IIRC.) Ground problems are a constant problem on these cars so you'll want to look closely at the connections.

You might also want to look at all the fuses. I usually would just rotate them in their holders a few times to wipe away any corrosion in the connections. Can't hurt. But be sure the battery is diconnected. (I think there's even a line in the Hanyes manual that says something like "If you haven't disconnected the battery yet, you will most certainly burn something up on the next step". That was good enough warning for me!)

I found reading the Haynes manual cover to cover before you start working to be very helpful when I first bought the car. Haynes is not the be all and end all of info but it gives some good warnings to keep you out of trouble. I believe some of the torque ratings in there are suspect, from what other members have said.

BTW, welcome to the fun of ownership! It's a project and it will take some time and a lot of patience to work out the bugs but when you get it running right, you won't be able to stop grinning.
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'80 924 n/a SOLD

[Rasta Monsta]

[D Hook]

(fist shaking) BASTARD!


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'80 924 n/a SOLD

[!tom]

[TaylorMantz]

[ideola]

The other possible contributing issue here could be the main starter harness to the alternator. It runs very close to the exhaust header, and they are prone to failure from many years of heat fatigue. It's not unusual for them to even melt and ground out on the header. Note that I said "contributing"...this may or may not be the root cause, so once you address this issue, don't assume your troubles are over...you will need to continue troubleshooting from there.

One of the things I've learned from experience is that the alternators on these cars seem to go fail alarming frequency. If the voltage regulator lets go, it can (and will) wipe out other components in the car, including the fuel pump and fuel pump relay and starter solenoid. If the main harness from the battery to the alt/starter is toasted such that it interrupts the circuit while the car is running, it WILL wipe out the voltage regulator. The fact that you got some response when you wiggled the negative cable and saw smoke from that side of the engine bay makes me suspect the main harness.

What I would do is tow the car home where you can work on it. Do not attempt to start or drive it any more because you could cause a catastrophic fire.

I would start by removing the alternator along with the main starter/alt wiring harness. Inspect the starter and make sure the main ground strap from the solenoid to the starter is intact and in good condition. If not, pull the starter and replace it. Get the alternator tested at your FLAPS. Replace as necessary. Up here in Michigan, O'Reilly's have rebuilt replacement alts in the 90 amp version for about $120 with a lifetime warranty (which they do honor, by the way!). Word to the wise, if you have to replace the alt, you will need an impact gun and a 22mm or 24mm socket to zip off the front nut and pulley assembly because the replacement alt won't come with it, and you will want to take your dead alt in as a core. This is a bit of a PITA because you can't test the alt without the pulley and so will need to return home to remove it (unless the FLAPS is wiling to assist you). But chances are, they will not have a replacement in stock, and it will require a day or two to ship in.

Then rebuild the wiring harness, and use at least one or two gauge sizes larger for all of the wires. Get good quality crimp-on terminals and solder them in place. Use shrink wrap to insulate the solder joints. Then put the entire harness into a heat resistant sleeve, like firebraid.

Finally, make sure that battery is in fact properly secured. The captive bolt to which the front hold down bracket is notorious for rusting away, making it difficult to secure the batter in the tray.

Start with that stuff and then see what you get.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

[D Hook]

[BionicBalls]

Can't get it to fire up? Start with the basics. pull a spark plug and check the condition. Is it wet? Yes, car is flooded. No, what's the color? Black = too rich, White = too lean.

Next plug the plug into the wire. Crank the car. Got spark?
Next pull an injector, put in a cup. Crank the car. Got gas?

Check the basics, then you can move on to the finer details.
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1980 924 NA
1982 931

[SlayerSST]

--

[ideola]

I can't speak for autozone, I've only used O'Reilly (formerly Murray's in Michigan) and have had good success with them. There test shows you the charging volts and the condition of the stator and voltage regulator.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

[kcoyle]

[joejax]

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I got nothin'
Uhhh...you got any pics?