924Board.org

[PieszczoH]

Hi there.
I've got 924S 86' and I'm having major oil leak from rear end of the balance shaft cover where the round metal end cap with o-ring is.
I was searching but didn't find any info about sealing this area.
Is there any possibility to take of the cover of the upper balance shaft without taking of the balance belt , timing belt, covers, balance shaft sprocket and so on ?

[dash16]

the balance shaft belt is in front of the timing belt so you wouldn't have to worry about taking apart the front end completely.

But I would recommend taking off the timing cover so that you make sure everything lines back up when you put it all back together.
_________________
1987 Porsche 924S Black/Black. 5-spd.
Options: AFX C79 261 398 423 650 651 657

1987 Mercedes 190E 2.3-16 Cosworth Pearl Black/Black. 5-spd.

STUTTGART PREVAILS

[moorepower]

This is a pretty common leak area. I've heard that you can clean the area with a good degreaser and cover it up with an oil-resistant RTV type sealer.

Some guys have had this temporary repair last for years. It should at least slow down or stop the leak until your next timing belt change, when you can take it all apart and fix it right.
_________________
Dan.

'88 924S-LE (Luddite Edition)
Manual steering, manual sunroof, manual windows, AC delete, cruise delete, M030 Konis, 25.5mm torsions, 26.8/20 sways

[PieszczoH]

Thanks for tips Guys but,

as far as I know, the timing cover is blocked by sprockets and timing belt, so when I want to take it off I need to take apart front end.

My concern is about an oring between the upper compensating shaft housing and upper bearing housing, will it be sealed when I take off and back the upper compensating shaft housing without removing the upper bearing housing.


The tip with a RTV sealer is clever, better than 1liter of oil every 1000km landing on the road.

[gohim]

The balance shaft cover is the upper bearing holder. When you remove the cover, the balance shaft will be free to fall out/off.

I suggest that if you aren't ready to do a complete FOES (front of engine service), that you clean the rear on the rear of the balance shaft cover to an oil and debris free (clean enough to it off it) state, and apply a liberal amount of heat, oil, and gas resistant RTV (silicone sealer) to lessen or eliminate the leak for now.

To do a proper repair (replace the o-ring on the round plate) is going to necessitate the removal of the balance shaft and all of the related parts that are attached to it.

[PieszczoH]

as far as I know from the manual there is upper compensating shaft housing and upper bearing housing. Upper bearing housing has 3 bolts, 2 are screwing in to compensating shaft housing and one into the engine block. Also the balance shaft is holded at the rear end and it's not by the housing it is all shown at the service manual.

there is no procedure how to change the specified oring, only how to take whole shaft off and on. I thought someone has done that before but I see ppl just seal it more often or just take whole engine a part and change this oring while engine rebuild.

[edredas]

http://dcauto3.gotdns.com/images/full/944_2_USA_85_88_KATALOG/pg_0037.jpg

To avoid any further confusion... you are referring to #21 in the diagram correct?

To replace #21, you must remove both belts, and BS Sprockets. When the back cover is removed you will have access to the three bolts. Remove these and gently tap the cover off.... the BS will not fall out.
_________________
'84 944 -White, Brown interior
'84 944 -Red, Automatic
'86 944 -Garnet, Fully loaded, Koni suspension
'87 924S -Red, 300hp 951 swap
'87 924S -Red, Project Car
'88 924S -Red, Daily Driver

[gohim]

I thought he was asking about #16.

Which is the o-ring that fits around the disc that closes off the back of the balance shaft cover.

[PieszczoH]

My oil leaks Not from #21. It's #16, the oring at the back end of a upper cover housing.
the #21 is in my concern, what happen if I take the upper cover housing off.
Will I be able to put it back, and not have a major leak from #21 oring.

I believe that there is a way of changing #16 without taking all front
or at least sealing it.

[edredas]

My apologies... to reiterate what gohim said, there's no shortcut here. To get to #16 you're going to have remove everything, so you might as well change #21 while you're at it.
_________________
'84 944 -White, Brown interior
'84 944 -Red, Automatic
'86 944 -Garnet, Fully loaded, Koni suspension
'87 924S -Red, 300hp 951 swap
'87 924S -Red, Project Car
'88 924S -Red, Daily Driver

[PieszczoH]

Ok, You say that there is no way of taking the cover of, without taking aparat full front.
I'm curious person and I want to ask You why is that.

I'll try to show You and write what I want to do, or plan to do and please tell me why it can't be done this way.

So, lets start:


So this is how it looks. I want to do the upper or left balance so we are talking about the lower part of a picture.

Now, I want to remove 2 of 3 bolts stated as #8, this will give me, a possibility not to remove the whole shaft, couse #10 wich is Upper bearing housing, which is holding balance shaft will stay at its place.

Balance shaft at its rear is holded by the #26 - bearing bridge, so when I will remove #20 Upper compensating shaft housing, the shaft will not fall off. It should stay at its place.

it should look like this:


So now, can You tell me, why can't I do this ? why can't I take the cover off this way and change oring number #22 placed at the plate #21 ???

In my opinion I should be able to do this after I take the intake off.
I really want to understand, Why You say that this can't be done.

[gohim]

Not all 2.5L engines have a separate rear bearing block. Early engines use the balance shaft cover to hold the balance shaft in place. Your 924S engine should have the later style engine block, but on cars this old, there's no telling whether the engine is original or a replacement without checking the block.

The bolt pattern on the earlier blocks' balance shaft cover from the later engine blocks (fewer bolts in a different pattern on the early blocks, might be 82-84 blocks). Take a look at your balance shaft covers to see if it matches the illustration in your latest post.

If you have the later type block (I think you should), your idea may work. If you have the early type block, you can still replace the o-ring, you just have to be careful that the balance shaft does not fall out and hit the floor. If you are going to try this, I don't understand why you don't want to remove the balance shaft, regardless of whether your engine is early or later. The large o-ring on the balance shaft front cover needs to be replaced when you remove the balance shaft cover otherwise you risk trading one leak for another in a different place. That's why everyone has been trying to advise you to wait to replace the rear o-ring until your doing a FOES (when you are going to be replacing the front seals (except for the large o-ring on the balance shaft front cover) anyway.

If you don't want to replace all of the seals on the balance shaft, then you really should wait until it time to do a FOES.

[PieszczoH]

ok, now I understand.
As far as I know my engine is the original engine of this 924S. I'll check the cover for bolt pattern.
Also I'm not sure, but the previous owner could replace that big oring when he was doing FOES. I'll have to ask.
I don't have a canal, or a car crane to be able to set up timing belt corectly after taking all of this off, this and oil amount going out are the reason why I look for other way to replace that oring.
Ok, Thanks Guys for explenation.

[bcblase]

What's a REALLY good oil and heat resistant RTV?

I have a fitting near the water pump on the 190E-16v that is buggered up and needs some good sealant.

Thanks,
Brad
_________________
1987 Porsche 924S - track toy
1986 Mercedes 190E 2.3-16v - autocross
2007 F-150 5.4L Lariat Supercrew - tow beast
1994 Volvo 850 Race Wagon - 24 Hours of Lemons Car
2001 BMW 325xi - daily driver

[PieszczoH]

Hi there, so i've managed to change the rear balance shaft o ring.
I've got the m44.07 engine and it is the earlier type engine.
In this type it can be done without removing the balanace belt or so.

In the later type engine it is not do able this way, or at least not recommended.