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dreamgts
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 504
Location: malta
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 Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:06 am Post subject: No fuel supply |
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Im trying to revive a 924 1979 Euro model which has been sitting in my garage for a number of years. the engine turns good, oil pressure etc are there. The car though wont start and after investigating the problem i relalised that the fuel pump wasnt working. I checked the relay which seems to be ok, also made a jump wire instaed of the relay. I checked for voltage at the relay no 30 socket, a reading of 12volts was obtained. I checked for voltage at the no 2 fuse on the fuse box under neath the relay's board, none was obtained. The fuse on the no 2 on the other fuse box which is affixed to the underneath of the dash keeps blowing. i suspect a short circuit here. can anyone direct me further. i must say that during my lightening procedgure of the car I removed the rear wiper wiper and I snap cut the wiring, I also did the same to the headlamp motor wiring , can the short circuit be coming from these snap cuts made? Another query I would like to make is concering the points fitted to the distributor since the model is a 79 model should points be installed in the distibutor, Hayes states that i should have an transisorised electronic box, I am sure that the model is a 1979 year since the chasis number indicates this clearly.
dreamgts
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2 PORSCHE 924 (CURRENT PROJECTS)
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Ozzie
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 4448
Location: Townsville, Qld. Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:07 am Post subject: |
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AFAIK the 79 had electonic ign.
Check your wiring and fuse ratings.
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Porsche 924 1984 (UK import) NA
Its AUTO and its BLACK
Montego Black on black/red
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dreamgts
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 504
Location: malta
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| Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:32 am Post subject: No fuel supply |
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Do you by any chance know if 16amp fuse ratings are correct, woulld an 8amp fuse blow if the rating is 16amp?
thanks
dreamgts
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2 PORSCHE 924 (CURRENT PROJECTS)
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datatrain
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 441
Location: Osoyoos, British Columbia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Snap cut the wiring ? You mean you just wholesale cut multiple wires that were paired or part of a bundle?
Your a lot braver than I am.
How do you know you don't have a mess of live ends waiting to touch something ?
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'78 924 NA with Collector plate
33 year old car, with me for 21 yrs
Mint '92 318i BMW
Near mint '98 Buick LeSabre
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masterdave
Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Posts: 183
Location: Harrison NY
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| Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| check your grounding points, if one is bad you may not be completing the circuit, try bench testing the pump, for this you will have to take it off the car. if you dont want to do that run a wire off of i believe the smaller terminal to good grounding source may as well use one of the ones on the car. then run the other terminal to i think the neg bat terminal, if the pump kicks in you will here it. this will tell you if it works. and for testing purposes putting a 16amp fuse in if it takes an 8amp will not kill the device, electronics only draw the current they need but i would not run the car with improper fuses, this will cause the systems to be able to possibly draw more power than they need, over heat and die, but testing its not a huge deal. |
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dreamgts
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 504
Location: malta
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| Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| datatrain wrote: | Snap cut the wiring ? You mean you just wholesale cut multiple wires that were paired or part of a bundle?
Your a lot braver than I am.
How do you know you don't have a mess of live ends waiting to touch something ? |
I snap cut the wires leading to the rear winscreen wiper motor and the front head lamp motor, thses I am not using anymore since they are being removed permanantly. i also removed fuses and relays which power these 2, tested for current with meter no current there so nothing will touch anything
There are no loose bundles laying around anyway
dreamgts
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2 PORSCHE 924 (CURRENT PROJECTS)
2 CLASSIC CORTINAS (FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT(FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT 132 2000CC(JUST PURCHASED)
4 SUV'S
2 SEDANS
1 OPEL PANEL VAN
WIFES SUZUKI ALTO |
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dreamgts
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 504
Location: malta
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| Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| masterdave wrote: | | check your grounding points, if one is bad you may not be completing the circuit, try bench testing the pump, for this you will have to take it off the car. if you dont want to do that run a wire off of i believe the smaller terminal to good grounding source may as well use one of the ones on the car. then run the other terminal to i think the neg bat terminal, if the pump kicks in you will here it. this will tell you if it works. and for testing purposes putting a 16amp fuse in if it takes an 8amp will not kill the device, electronics only draw the current they need but i would not run the car with improper fuses, this will cause the systems to be able to possibly draw more power than they need, over heat and die, but testing its not a huge deal. |
I beleive the fuel pump runs on a 16amp fuse , do you mean I have to ground both fuel pump terminals if I test it in its place. Is it possible to test the pump in place while disconecting it from its leads by conecting it to an exterior battery terminals, I think the small terminal on pump is minus and the larger plus?
dreamgts
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2 PORSCHE 924 (CURRENT PROJECTS)
2 CLASSIC CORTINAS (FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT(FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT 132 2000CC(JUST PURCHASED)
4 SUV'S
2 SEDANS
1 OPEL PANEL VAN
WIFES SUZUKI ALTO |
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dreamgts
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 504
Location: malta
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| Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:35 pm Post subject: No fuel supply |
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| Ozzie wrote: | AFAIK the 79 had electonic ign.
Check your wiring and fuse ratings. |
Chasis no is 9249106351 I believe the fourth digit(9) indicates the year of manufacture and the fifth digit indicates its the Euro, but still have points and not electronic ignition.. wonder why
I will have to upgrade to electroinc ignition if I intend to tune for performance most probably
dreamgts
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2 PORSCHE 924 (CURRENT PROJECTS)
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1 CLASSIC FIAT(FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT 132 2000CC(JUST PURCHASED)
4 SUV'S
2 SEDANS
1 OPEL PANEL VAN
WIFES SUZUKI ALTO |
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dpw928
Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 1860
Location: owasso, ok 74055
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| dreamgts wrote: | | masterdave wrote: | | check your grounding points, if one is bad you may not be completing the circuit, try bench testing the pump, for this you will have to take it off the car. if you dont want to do that run a wire off of i believe the smaller terminal to good grounding source may as well use one of the ones on the car. then run the other terminal to i think the neg bat terminal, if the pump kicks in you will here it. this will tell you if it works. and for testing purposes putting a 16amp fuse in if it takes an 8amp will not kill the device, electronics only draw the current they need but i would not run the car with improper fuses, this will cause the systems to be able to possibly draw more power than they need, over heat and die, but testing its not a huge deal. |
I beleive the fuel pump runs on a 16amp fuse , do you mean I have to ground both fuel pump terminals if I test it in its place. Is it possible to test the pump in place while disconecting it from its leads by conecting it to an exterior battery terminals, I think the small terminal on pump is minus and the larger plus?
dreamgts |
IIRC the small pin on the pump is battery and the large pin is ground.
Dennis
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dreamgts
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 504
Location: malta
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:17 am Post subject: No fuel supply |
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Today I found some time to check out the fuel pump again. First I placed a 16amp fuse on No2 fuse box, this fuse was blowing a few days ago. I jumped the relay as described in Hayes with a jump wire and a 16amp fuse. I also earthed the fuel pump by attaching a wire to the bigger nut on the fuel pump and a good earth on the car body while the pump was still in place and connected by the cars wiring. Yet when I switched ignition on the wiring of the jump lead started melting. I could have used the wrong gauge wire here. After I looked in it further the jump lead fuse was not blown and neither was the fuse from the no 2 fuse box which was blowing a few days ago. I later treid out the fuel pump directly to a battery by attaching a wire from the bigger nut to the negative terminal and another wire from the small nut to the positive terminal , the pump seemed to kick in yet not continuosly though everytime I touched the positve wire to the battery the pump did kick in. I am not sure though which is positive and which is negative on the pump since changing the wires on the pump to the battery also made the fuel pump kick in.
Any Advise or views??
Thanks
dreamgts
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1 CLASSIC FIAT 132 2000CC(JUST PURCHASED)
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masterdave
Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Posts: 183
Location: Harrison NY
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| do not connect the pump to the (+) and (-) terminals that could ruin the pump. what you want to do is connect the small nut to the (-) terminal and the larger nut to ground, ground is not (+). i dont know why the jump started melting unless you used extremely thin wire and i mean extremely thin wire the gauge should not matter all that much, 10 to 20 gauge will work fine, that is about what they use all over the car depending on what you are wiring. make sure your harness wires are on the pump correctly brown is ground that should be on the larger nut and i believe it is a black and green wire for the live connection. i had a similar issue and it turned out that some one had run an extra wire of the live connection inadvertently grounding it. |
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dreamgts
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 504
Location: malta
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:51 am Post subject: No fuel supply |
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| masterdave wrote: | | do not connect the pump to the (+) and (-) terminals that could ruin the pump. what you want to do is connect the small nut to the (-) terminal and the larger nut to ground, ground is not (+). i dont know why the jump started melting unless you used extremely thin wire and i mean extremely thin wire the gauge should not matter all that much, 10 to 20 gauge will work fine, that is about what they use all over the car depending on what you are wiring. make sure your harness wires are on the pump correctly brown is ground that should be on the larger nut and i believe it is a black and green wire for the live connection. i had a similar issue and it turned out that some one had run an extra wire of the live connection inadvertently grounding it. |
Thanks I must say that I did use rather thin wire ( radio fuse wire) although the fuse did not blow on it. I think if it was short circuit the fuse would have blown??
I only connected the plus and minus when bench tested it meaning that the pump was not receiving any voltage except from an exterior battery source is it good to do cause the pump did respond although it only kicked when I sparked the wire with the exterior battery.
If I understood right I must leave the fuel pump connections on, earth the (+) plus conection on the pump to the cars own battery (-) ground terminal and grounding the pumps ground to the car body???? isnt that conecting a plus connection)fuel pump) to a ground connection (battery) dangerous? If yet the pump works this way what should I do to rectify the problem cause I cant drive around with a long wire from the fuel pump to the battery unless for trial.
Any Advice please
dreamgts
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2 PORSCHE 924 (CURRENT PROJECTS)
2 CLASSIC CORTINAS (FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT(FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT 132 2000CC(JUST PURCHASED)
4 SUV'S
2 SEDANS
1 OPEL PANEL VAN
WIFES SUZUKI ALTO |
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Smoothie
Joined: 01 Jan 2003
Posts: 8032
Location: DE (the one near MD, PA, NJ)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:26 am Post subject: Re: No fuel supply |
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| dreamgts wrote: | | If I understood right I must leave the fuel pump connections on, earth the (+) plus conection on the pump to the cars own battery (-) ground terminal and grounding the pumps ground to the car body???? |
Nooooo...fuel pump (+) does not get grounded (or earthed). Fuel pump (+) is of course positive, and ultimately (through the cars' wiring) attaches to the (+) side of the battery (and (+) of the alternator). -And pretty sure they're correct above about the smaller terminal being (+) and the larger one (-). -And jumper cabling the fuel pump directly to the battery with leads hooked up incorrectly will burn one of your jumper wires, even if it's of adequate gauge. During my own "experiment" with this several years ago using 16 gauge, one of the wires very quickly went up in smoke. I replaced the burnt wire, corrected (reversed) the leads (+ to smaller terminal, and (-) to larger terminal as I recall), then everything went swimingly.
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'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox |
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dreamgts
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 504
Location: malta
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:39 am Post subject: Re: No fuel supply |
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| Smoothie wrote: | | dreamgts wrote: | | If I understood right I must leave the fuel pump connections on, earth the (+) plus conection on the pump to the cars own battery (-) ground terminal and grounding the pumps ground to the car body???? |
Nooooo...fuel pump (+) does not get grounded (or earthed). Fuel pump (+) is of course positive, and ultimately (through the cars' wiring) attaches to the (+) side of the battery (and (+) of the alternator). -And pretty sure they're correct above about the smaller terminal being (+) and the larger one (-). -And jumper cabling the fuel pump directly to the battery with leads hooked up incorrectly will burn one of your jumper wires, even if it's of adequate gauge. During my own "experiment" with this several years ago using 16 gauge, one of the wires very quickly went up in smoke. I replaced the burnt wire, corrected (reversed) the leads (+ to smaller terminal, and (-) to larger terminal as I recall), then everything went swimingly. |
Gees I dont think I understood masterdave then cause here in Malta minus - is negative and ground is negative too.He told me to ground + positive too??? Is it possible for someone to guide me thru this please, i dont want to end up making any damage. Till now definetly I havnt grounded both wires for sure.
dreamgts
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2 PORSCHE 924 (CURRENT PROJECTS)
2 CLASSIC CORTINAS (FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT(FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT 132 2000CC(JUST PURCHASED)
4 SUV'S
2 SEDANS
1 OPEL PANEL VAN
WIFES SUZUKI ALTO |
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dreamgts
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 504
Location: malta
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:49 am Post subject: No fuel supply |
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Smoothie the jump wire was not conected to the battery but instead of the relay to safe guard it but im sure I used thin wire for it since it melted,fuse didnt blow though, what I did here was that I left the pump conected to its own wiring and added another ground wire from the minus conector from the pump to a good ground (Negative) on the car. As I said when I bench tested the pump conecting minus to minus and plus to plus from the pump to a external battery only, the pump did kick but only when i sparked the wiring at the battery side, should the pump have continued to pump with this trial? or did it do what its supposed to do, meaning kick when sparked?
dreamgts
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2 PORSCHE 924 (CURRENT PROJECTS)
2 CLASSIC CORTINAS (FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT(FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT 132 2000CC(JUST PURCHASED)
4 SUV'S
2 SEDANS
1 OPEL PANEL VAN
WIFES SUZUKI ALTO |
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