924Board.org

Ebagup · Joined: 23 Dec 2009 Posts: 5 Location: Columbus, Ohio

I recently purchased a 1987 924S (my first Porsche

) roughly 2months ago. It's in excellent condition. 93,XXX miles with great body and interior, I've had zero problems with it and I've been nothing but impressed. It drives and handles very well, the only concern worth mentioning is that upon start up, there is a growling noise with some minor shuddering for about 2-3seconds and then it goes away (again the car only does this at startup). I didn't think much of it up until now.

The PO had given me all the documentation/records of service, however prior to the purchase, the car was not being driven often and it was last serviced at 80,XXX miles (normally this wouldn't seem of too much concern, but it was done 11 years ago in 1998, roughly 1,200 miles driven a year). During this service the WP/Timing Belt and Power Steering Pump were all replaced. I should note that on the 1998 service record it mentions the "growling noise" I described with a "Poss. P/S Pump" explanation (which I'm guessing is why it was replaced). However I am left unsure whether or not the growling problem was resolved or not as there have been no other service records. So to recap the current WP/TB is 11 years old with 13,XXX miles on it.

A couple days ago I had it serviced for the first time. I ordered for the brake fluid to be flushed/filled, changed engine oil to synthetic, replaced oil filters, had the transmission oil replaced, replaced cam cover seal (small oil leak), and had the tires rotated. The mechanic mentioned the growling and said it could be a loose timing belt or the WP. Since I don't have the means to do it myself, the shop charge is about 1200 all said and done for both.

I don't really want to replace both if I don't have to, would I be safe just replacing/retensioning the timing belt?
_________________
You know you're a Porschaphile when:
You actually enjoy your drive to/from work
You thought Volkswagen was a German electrical term, the phrase "Mercedes Rule" was an actress, and that BMW was an abbreviation for Better Mechanic Wanted
1987 924S

moorepower

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

There isn't any cam cover, or cam cover seal on a 924S.

The engine has a cyclinder head, and a cam tower assembly (consists of the camshaft housing, and camshaft).

The only seals or gaskets on the cam tower assembly are the camshaft front seal, and the paper gasket located under the cam tower assembly between the camtower assembly and the cylinder head.

Since the timing belt and the cam tower assembly must be removed to replace the paper gasket between the cam tower assembly and the cylinder head, a FOES (front of engine service, including replacement of the balance shaft belt, timing belt, front of engine seals, waterpump, rollers, and pulleys) is normally performed. As there is little or no additional labor being performed, only difference is additional new parts are installed.

Sounds like you got shafted, you paid for the service, and not the parts, but now you have to pay for the entire labor charge again to get the other important parts replaced.

If the paper gasket beteen the cam tower assembly and the cylinder head is in fact the gasket that was replaced, I would go back to the shop and raise hell. The rest of the parts should have been replaced while the cam tower was off, and you should not have to pay any additional labor to the LAZY ASSED MECHANIC OR THE SHOP.

Ebagup · Joined: 23 Dec 2009 Posts: 5 Location: Columbus, Ohio

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

No valve cover gasket either.

Like I wrote previously, there isn't any valve cover, or valve cover gasket.

the only gasket up there is paper, and you have to remove the cam tower assembly to get to it, and the timing belt must be removed from the camshaft, so everything is loose and should be replaced at the same time.

Either way you got screwed by the shop. Go back and get your money back.

Ebagup · Joined: 23 Dec 2009 Posts: 5 Location: Columbus, Ohio

Gohim, I appreciate your help! Your knowledge dwarfs mine when it comes to these cars so bear with me while I try and make sure I'm on the same page.

The exact part number is 928-105-189-02. http://www.924.org/parts/parts.htm If you go to the engine gaskets its the last one in that table. I guess its cork?.. Anyways that was the supposed culprit of the oil leak. And just for good measure (and for my own sake) http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-parts/928-78-82/103-05.php?pn=92810515304 Part 7 is what was replaced.

I'm hoping my terminology was just wrong, I have a hard time believing I was cheated. But, I do want to be sure of the facts before/if I make any complaints. So, does what you were saying earlier still stand? If it does I highly doubt ill be able to get my money back, at best Ill be able to get a discounted labor charge if I decide to do the FOES at this same shop.

Oh the things I would do to have my own tools and garage...

_________________
You know you're a Porschaphile when:
You actually enjoy your drive to/from work
You thought Volkswagen was a German electrical term, the phrase "Mercedes Rule" was an actress, and that BMW was an abbreviation for Better Mechanic Wanted
1987 924S

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

That's even worse. Let me see if I understand what you paid $1200 for...

You paid $1200 to have the motor oil, tranny fluid, and brake fluid replaced, along with the oil filter, and the cork gasket that always leaks at the rear of the cylinder head?

They got you coming and going...

How much do you think the oil, fluid and filters would have cost at the auto parts store? No more than $75. And, you know how much the gasket cost, because you looked it up.

So what did you pay the shop mechanic for labor? $400 an hour for two to two and a half hours of work?

And, you still desperately need to the belts changed (FULL FOES ACTUALLY for $1500-$2500), before you should even crank that engine.

They saw you coming and you got screwed up one side and down the other. The only thing you didn't lose is your bank account number.

You could have bought the oil and filter, and took the car to a 5-minute oil change place, and they would have charged you less than $100 for the same service you just paid $1200 for.

I repeat, I'd go back there and get my money back.

Paul · Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:33 am Post subject:

The way I read it, the shop estimated $1200 for the belts and water pump replacement.
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

Paul · Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:35 am Post subject:

Any chance this is a sticking bendix in the starter?

You could find out by push starting the car and see if the noise goes away.
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

Ebagup · Joined: 23 Dec 2009 Posts: 5 Location: Columbus, Ohio

Paul · Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:55 pm Post subject:

Yes you are way over due for a belt/roller replacement. I'd replace all 4 belts and all rollers.

Balance shaft belts are getting scarce for some reason, I had to buy one from Sunset for almost $100!
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

Yeah, I misunderstood you. $300 for fluid changes is much more reasonable.

You need to get the FOES done right away. Not next week, or next month.

There's no safe way to avoid it either. It should be done every 3 years or 30K miles (which ever comes first). This is the reason way owning any car with the Porsche 2.5L engine is going to be expensive whether you drive it regularly or not.

If you are not prepared to spend another $1500-$2000 right now to get the engine and other maintenance/repairs done that pop up taken care of. And not ready to spend another $1500 a year (and save the balance of what you don''t spend towards FOES every year), then a 2.5L engined Porsche is not for you.

Ebagup · Joined: 23 Dec 2009 Posts: 5 Location: Columbus, Ohio

Thanks for the help Gohim.

_________________
You know you're a Porschaphile when:
You actually enjoy your drive to/from work
You thought Volkswagen was a German electrical term, the phrase "Mercedes Rule" was an actress, and that BMW was an abbreviation for Better Mechanic Wanted
1987 924S

Paul · Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:55 am Post subject:

The best way to keep costs down on any car is to learn to do the work yourself, it's easy.
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.