924Board.org

[JoeShmo]

Greetings! I've been looking around for info about wheel bearings, and given the different flavors out there, wanted to be sure I get the right ones, since I'm new to this whole operation.

judging from http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?p=81106&highlight=113501277a#81106 it looks like part numbers 113501277A (outer) and 113501283 (inner) are correct, but the poster did not say what car he had. Also, the page I'm looking at to buy these also shows 311405645 for "models with 4 bolt solid front rotors and rear drums".

I have a 1977 Martini & Rossi edition 924. It has the 4 bolt pattern for the lugs. I understand that this edition used a different transaxle, but unsure about the bearings.

Also, as an added bonus, for anyone that has been down this road; Is rear wheel bearing replacement somewhat straight forward for a backyard mechanic? Assuming I can rent the puller from the local auto parts store. I plan on replacing the bearings, spacer, circlip and seal. The diagram from the shop manual shows the outer bearing as 2 parts; the roller bearing and the inner race, yet online, I see the bearing together. I'm guessing it is indeed the 1 piece version I need? Or is this one of those 5bolt vs 4 bolt lug deals?

Anyone recommend a good place to buy parts online? So far, I've found autohausaz.com, which seems to have good pricing, but I'm in NY. might take a day or two extra to get parts here, and I'm anxious. =) Plus, I cant find anywhere that has the spacers (inner and outer) which I understand SHOULD be replaced when replacing the bearings.

Thanks for any insight!

[Paul]

Welcome to the board.

The rear wheel bearings are not too bad if you can get the axle nut off! I seldom need a puller to do them.

Get a price for all of the parts from Sunset Porsche in Oregon,sometimes they are cheaper than autohauz.

http://www.sunsetporsche.com/parts.php?make=Porsche

Call them on the phone!
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

[Slam]

Easy but messy job. Providing the CV bolts come off without complaining. With them you'll need the proper tool. A search here will turn up a lot about this issue. You'll need good circlip pliers for the mother C-clip on the inner bearing. As long as you pay close attention to the way it comes apart, you'll be fine. Be careful with the orientation of the spacers. I use a 36mm impact socket as a driver. Just the right size for hammering out the inner bearing. Yay! Torquing the big axle nut back on can get entertaining. I lock up the emergency brake, jack up the control arm to take the slack out of it and stand on a breaker bar about a foot along it. I'm about 200lbs. IIRC, torque should be 225lbs.

HTH

BTW, the bearings are the same for all the 924s and the early 944s.
_________________
'88 944 Auto - may or may not resurrect

[JoeShmo]

Thanks for the tips and info, guys...

I don't think I'll have trouble with the CV bolts, as when I jacked up the car to check things out, I noticed that about 4 of them on one side were so loose that they almost fell out. I actually think the CV boot edge was keeping them from totally falling out. I tightened those, plus the other side with a 6 point. I plan on getting the actual tool (triple square?) to do the complete job.

I ended up ordering from autohaus, as I could do everything online (and only $85 for the 4 bearings, and 2 cv boot kits). But they did not have the spacers, and the only seal they had was an o-ring (113501291B). Is there a better seal, or is that it? I went to the local library and found the diagrams in a shop manual. It shows an o-ring between the "bearing inner race" and "roller bearing"; this is for the outermost bearing. inner "seal" is between the inner space and circlip. (again, all according to the diagrams). I just want to make sure I have all the parts before going back to my brother's house 175 miles away where the car is. (Just bought the car, and from the sounds it made, did not want to drive it back to my place).

So we'll see how it goes... Next is to figure out the overheating problem. But as I've found that theres no thermostat in it now, that might be an easy fix; just put one in, and maybe thats it. But since its out now, might as well do a flush.

update... just found the seals.. part number 113-501-315H-M30 from pelicanparts. 2 per side I guess. "924/944 (1977-01/85)", sound about right?
I thought I read somewhere that the 944 uses the aluminum control arms with tapered bearings, disc breaks, and 5 bolt lugs. Of course I've been scouring the internet and this forum so much, I probably got it confused with something else. Might be easier to just lookup super beetle parts instead. =)

[GregSC]

I can't offer a lot of advise concerning the procedure involved in refreshing the bearings (a job I will be doing this fall), but there was a recent post entitled Wheel Bearings 101 that had a nice group of pictures and captions that should be of assistance.

Concerning the transaxle for the Martini Rossi, if I'm not mistaken it is the same as any other early 924 that has the Audi four speed. I was under mine to remove the gas tank for reconditioning last summer and nothing looked different from the 78 924 that I had previously owned.

Another option for hard to find or "dealership only" parts a little closer to you is Stoddard Porsche located in the Cleveland, Ohio area. I have dealt with them in the past and they are not only a dealership, but also restore older Porsches (911s and 914s mostly from what I can gather). Maurice (I think is his name) is a real nice guy to deal with.

Finally, you might already have this information, but if you do a search on this board for PET catalogue you can find a link to factory parts catalogues that will be of great assistance in getting part numbers, ordering parts, and in figuring out how things are suppose to go together.

Hope you can get your Martini on the road soon!
_________________
1981 931

[JoeShmo]

Just an update for anyone searching for this topic...

First off, the axle nuts were no problem. As I was fiddling with the cotter pin, I noticed the axle nut was loose. So I tightened up the nut about 4 turns with my fingers, and finished it off with a breaker bar. Had to tighten the other side too. Took it for a drive, and still had the typical bad wheel bearing sound (whirrrrr, getting louder, mainly when going around a right turn). Figured what the heck, I'll replace both.

Did one side at a time, so I'd have reference just in case I needed to look at the other for how it goes together. Mainly used the diagrams from the PET catalog.

NOTE: never beat on the new bearings with a hammer when putting them in. Always think about where the pressure is in what you are trying to do. You always want to avoid pressure on the inner race while trying to press the outer race into something, or vice-versa. (I'm guessing this is just common sense, but figured I'd mention it).

WARNING WARNING WARNING DISCLAIMER:

This is just how I did it. I'm not a true mechanic, just a typical "back yard mechanic". No formal training, just mainly looking at manuals, and figuring stuff out on my own, and/or from reading forums and such. I'm not sure this is the correct way to do things, or if I majorly screwed anything up. Plus, I completed this earlier today, and recalling things from memory. So not sure if I'm missing something.

Heres how I did it, for anyone interested...

removed axle nuts, and pulled tire off, still attached to brake drum.
using the special 8mm "triple square" aka "surrated wrench", removed the 6 bolts that go though the outer CV joint and boot. A few gentle taps on the CV joint freed it from the stub axle. Used wire to tie the axle up, out of the way. I used a pipe wrench on the axle to keep it from turning while taking out these 6 bolts.

There is a spacer on the stub axle that rides in the outer seal. You might be able to just pull this off with your fingers, otherwise, keep it in mind when tapping out the stub axle in this next step. This piece is not the same on both sides, so keep in mind what points out. I forgot what the orientation is supposed to be.

Tap on the stub axle (from outside) with a hammer and small piece of metal to protect the threads, when the end of the threads are about even with the outer seal, use light taps, so it doesnt come flying out, and land on the floor. Or, so you dont hit your hand with the hammer when the piece you are hitting is no longer there because it came flying out already.
Bonus points for having someone else there to hold onto that axle to keep it from falling.

Cleaned the stub axle all up, keep the spacer on it, so you know its orientation (the beveled edge goes twards where the CV joint would be, I guess that would be called the "inside").

Mangle the heck out of the inner seal, while trying to get it out. Or I suppose you can try to take it out without mangling, but chances are, it'll be destroyed anyway.

With a good C-Clip removal tool, fight with the circlip (inner side still), till you can get it to snap out of it's groove. With a rag around your finger, pull it out, possibly while keeping tension on it with the tool (just so it doesnt fly accross the room when you get it out all the way).

Now, over on the outer side, remove the 4 bolts holding the brake backing on (no need to do anything with the brakes). Put one of the bolts back in (just a few turns) to hold the brake plate from flapping in the breeze, and putting unnecessary tension on the brake line. The piece with the 4 bolts has a seal in it as well, easier to replace after removing it from the car, I used a small press to make sure the new one went in evenly.

On mine, I was able to just grab the outer wheel bearing, and pull it out; as it's about 1/4inch out anyway. Also, the inner race just slides right out.

remove the inner spacer (its about 2 or 3 inches long), and clean out some of the greese in there. Now the fun part... Find something to beat the inner bearing out with. As mentioned in a previous post, a huge socket seems to work pretty good (as long as its smaller then the channel that you are beating it into, obviously, you dont want to wedge it in there). Beat it from the outside twards the inside of the car. Again, someone on the inside to catch it, and/or warn you that its about to fly off will come in handy; so you can be more gentle twards the end.


REASSEMBLY:

(I packed the bearings with grease, I'm guessing I was supposed to). In case you lost track, the bearing with the round balls goes on the inside, verify part numbers in PET catalog, it comes in handy when verifying the order things go together.

Put bearing in, then using a threaded rod, and two things big and flat, put the god through where the axle stub goes, through the bearing, and through whatever you had thats flat, then put some washers and nuts on, and draw it in, so the bearing is flush with the edge. (I realize I'm going against my note above, as I'm probably putting pressure on the inner race as well as the outer, but they should both be even, so maybe its ok). After getting that far, use the socket you used to beat the old bearing out, and draw the new bearing in with it (being careful to make sure the socket is aligned nicely on the outer race). Draw it in until it stops. Remove the threaded rod, and verify that the bearing is past the circlip channel.

Verify clenlyness, then reinstall circlip using same method used to take it out (making sure it doesnt fly off the tool), just get in inside the cylinder, then push it the rest of the way with a screwdriver until it snaps into place all around.

Install the inner seal using the same method as the bearing. Be careful that it goes in straight. If using the big socket tecnique, be sure its big enough to just barely fit into that cylinder, otherwise you'll destroy the seal. The seal seemed to be alot harder to install than the bearing. Mostly because it doesnt like to go in straight. So draw a little and verify its going in straight. Possibly use a hammer on the socket on the side that isnt going in if thats the case.

Next, take the stub axle, verify it still has the small spacer on it, and insert from the inside. On mine, I could push it in by hand until the threads we just about even with the brake plate. next, I took the longer spacer that goes in the middle, and slipped it on, then put the castle nut on (the 36mm one), and tightened it with a wrench to draw the stub axle onto the bearing. (The spacer is against the inner race, the nut is drawing the axle in, so no bad pressure on the bearing. Trying to hammer in the axle would most likely be a very bad idea).
After getting as far as you can with the nut, remove the nut, and use the old inner race from the outer bearing to draw it in some more.. then use the old inner race, and the outer spacer. Given all those spacing options, it should be enough to have gotten the shaft all the way in.

Now is a good time to replace that O-ring that sits against the brake backplate.

Not sure if I was supposed to do this, but I did; Fill the inner cavity (around the longer spacer) with greese, right up to the outer most part. After packing the outer bearing, slide onto the axle, so it pushes the rest of the greese into that cavity. Put the end cap on, and tighten the 4 bolts. Put on the outer spacer, then the brake drum (or rotor), and finally the hub nut, just snug it up for now.

Put the axle/CV joint back together onto the stub axle, using the similar tecnique used to take it off (pipe wrench on axle?).

Using your favorite tecnique, tighten the axle nut. I tightened it up as much as I could whle the car was in the air, using the pipe wrench to hold the axle. Then, when car was on the ground, tightened it up to around 280ft lbs, and installed the cotter pin. I'm guessing with the car on the ground, you are trying to draw the tire twards the car, or the car twards the tire, so there will be some drag. If using the "hold the brake" tecnique, then you are holding the brake drum, which you are trying to draw in.

[JoeShmo]

one of the rear CV boots was ripped, but there was still alot of grease in the CV joint and boot, so hopefully the CV joint didnt get a chance to get destroyed.

WARNING/DISCLAIMER:
Same thing applies as my last post. This is just how I did it, and not necessarily the correct way.

So heres my "bonus" quick how-to (err, how I did it anyway) for the CV boot replacement. Not sure if someone else posted how to do this, but when I was checking my wheel bearings, I noticed the torn boot, so repaired it at the same time...

When putting things back together, I could not get the clip on, so I had to take the axle off the car, and rig up a press to get it together. So, I'd guess that to do this easier, figure on having to remove the whole axle.

Using ring/clip spreader, open the ring at the end of the shaft that holds the shaft into the CV joint, and remove it. The boot kit I bought came with a new clip and washer.

Note: There is a washer on the side of the CV joint that you can't see (unless the boot is TOTALLY gone/destroyed). pay attention to the orientation of this washer, as its not flat. I had to put the CV joint in a vice, and beat on the metal flange part of the CV boot. However, I took the CV joint off the axle first, which was sort of a mistake, because after that, I had no idea how the washer was supposed to go on. I guessed that it goes back on the way it would make things hard to put the clip back on.

So if you can get the boot off first, check that washer's orientation while sliding the CV joint off the axle.

After pulling off the CV joint, and that washer, and the old boot, have fun getting the new one on. Dont forget to put the boot clip on the axle first (but dont crimp it down till yur done with everything). I used a little soap to ensure the rubber wouldnt catch on anything and tear while trying to get it over that hump.

I then installed the washer, the cv joint, and tried to get the retaining clip on, but could not push the cvjoint down far enough. I then used a 12 point socket that was just barely bigger than the axle spline, but small enough to catch on that clip. I put it in a press, put all sorts of pressure on it (without breaking the socket obviously), then used a screwdriver and hammer to try to hammer the clip into the channel it goes into. I would not snap in while under load from the press, which is why I used screwdriver/hammer tecnique. Also hammered it in while slowly releasing the press.

Re-installed axle in the car, adjusted small-end boot position, and put the clip thing on (that was fun too), and crimped it tight.