924Board.org

Brockoli · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:33 am Post subject: Oil leak

So i have a pretty big oil leak from....everywhere? My oil pan, DS motor mount, steering rack have a lot of oil on them. I think it is coming from my oil pan gasket. The gasket is hanging out a bit all the way around the oil pan. The PO said the engine had been rebuilt. There is also silicone sticking out in places in addition to the oil pan gasket.

So what do I do?

A new oil pan gasket is $14. But I have to drop the front cross member to get to it. Which is no big deal becasue I am going to replace the a-arm bushings and ball joints so I will need a wheel alignment anyways. I want to do a engine rebuild but I was planning on gathering the parts over this summer and doing the rebuild spring 2010.

Should I replace the oil pan gasket to get me through the rest of summer (maybe 2.5 months of occasional driving). Or should I park it and do the gasket when I have everything apart during the rebuild?

If I replace the gasket is there anything else I should look into doing? Like cleaning out the oil sump?

Any tips would be great!!!
_________________
'80 924 M471,Wideband O2, Full coilover susp,23/19 sways,Bilstiens,KLA Strut Brace,Roll Bar,Test Pipe,BBS RS, Willwood BBK

25% of a '87 944 Chumpcar http://straightpipe.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=2454

'79 924 Sebring Edition(Sitting)

Chrenan · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 3903 Location: Canada

I would replace the gasket to keep it on the road for the summer. I did the oil pan gasket with the engine in the car on the 951, it wasn't that bad, and it is a much worse job on the 951 as the engine mounts to the cross member, and the cross over pipe needs to come off. An engine in oil pan gasket change on the 924 should be a relatively quick job for you given the work you've already done on the 924.
_________________
1987 951 - M193 Version for Japan

Chrenan · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 3903 Location: Canada

Just thinking, is it massive blowby causing the pan gasket to leak? If so, a new one won't solve the issue.

_________________
1987 951 - M193 Version for Japan

Brockoli · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:06 am Post subject:

the blow bye could be the problem. However, when I got the engine in the car and on the road there was only a normal amount of oil in the air box. The oil gasket hasnt moved since I put the engine in. Dad and I noticed the oil gasket and silicone hanging out when we put the engine in.

The hanging out gasket can by one of two things,
1. The person who rebuilt the engine didnt install it properly/over torqued the gasket. Which is possible becasue the amount of silicone also used with the oil pan gasket was kind of strange. There was silicone pushed out in various spots along with the gasket.
2. Oil blow bye. My compression has dropped since the first time I did a compression test. But not by much. I do have 1 or 2 sick cylinder(cant remember how many, I have it written down somewhere). I remember the compression being about 90-100psi on the weakest one which shows a drop of about 10-15psi on that cylinder. The strongest being ~130psi which hasnt changed.

I wouldnt think this would cause enough blow bye to push the gasket out. Wouldnt the pressure in the crank be relieved by the PCV valve?

Also, when we installed the engine I remember tightening some of the oil pan bolts since they were very loose. I went under the car again and the oil pan bolts were barely finger tight again. I tightened them up a bit. I didnt use a torque wrench

but I only tightened them a little bit.

I realize that replacing the oil pan gasket wont solve the issue if it is massive blow bye. However, it might get me through the summer. And a rebuild is just around the corner.
_________________
'80 924 M471,Wideband O2, Full coilover susp,23/19 sways,Bilstiens,KLA Strut Brace,Roll Bar,Test Pipe,BBS RS, Willwood BBK

25% of a '87 944 Chumpcar http://straightpipe.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=2454

'79 924 Sebring Edition(Sitting)

Smoothie · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:28 am Post subject:

POORscheMAN · Joined: 08 Sep 2003 Posts: 104 Location: Norwich NY

How much pressure would build in the block if the breather was plugged up?
I think I remember reading that it could be enough to push oil out of the dipstick tube or something like that.
If that was the case could it also push the oil pan gasket out?

I think the remedy was to back flush the breather with kerosene after draining all the oil out, but don't quote me on that.
_________________
1978 924
Audi 5K Throttle Body - 10:1 comp
Stage 1 Cam -MSD coil- Crane XR700 ignition - Headers
260# springs -26mm rear TBars-
poly bushings -Weltmeister sway bars

1980 924 N/A -- stock
1982 931
1988 944
1994 968 M030

Brockoli · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:34 pm Post subject:

Smoothie - The PO used a lot of silicone in the wrong places. I will try the contact cement trick as it sounds like a great idea.

Poorscheman - I have already back flushed the PCV valve with gasoline during my last oil change. The gas ran out of the oil drain plug quite fast and nothing really came out in terms of debris. I let the gas evaporate off as much as I could before filling it back up with oil.

I installed an oil catch can I got from Chrenan and there seems to be what I think is a normal amount of oil in it. The volume seems very similar to the amount of oil I had in my air box before this blow bye became a large problem. I got about 1/2 of a shot glass out of the catch can last time I drained it. This was from about 2 tanks of gas, so 600 miles. All the oil is probably coming out my leak(s).
_________________
'80 924 M471,Wideband O2, Full coilover susp,23/19 sways,Bilstiens,KLA Strut Brace,Roll Bar,Test Pipe,BBS RS, Willwood BBK

25% of a '87 944 Chumpcar http://straightpipe.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=2454

'79 924 Sebring Edition(Sitting)

Slam · Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:48 am Post subject:

Brock, just my $.02, but I'd change the gasket. They're cheap and available (or seems to be...) and the job's not a bad one. All that oil is ruining everything it touches. You can avoid having to get an alignment by lowering the crossmember enough to get the pan out - let it hang by the front suspension. The sway bar will probably have to come off, too. Believe it or not, at the 30,000-mile service it's actually recommended that you pull the pan and clean it! Your biggest headache will be the cleaning job, but at least it'll be easier next time...
_________________
'84 944 - kid blew motor
'83 944 - resting comfortably. For 12 years
'87 944 - sideswiped by trucker
'80 924 - gone
'78 924 - gone
'77 924 - rusting comfortably

Brockoli · Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:53 pm Post subject:

Slam - I agree with everything you wrote. I cringe everytime I see all that oil all over my suspension pieces. I read in the Haynes about cleaning the oil pan every 30K miles. Thats crazy. So is tightening the head every so many miles they tell you. It seems like overkill but I havent had the car on the road long enough to know if it is a good idea or not. Hopefully when I change the gasket it doesnt push out again and the leak stops. I need an alignment anyways as I have new tie rod assemblies, a regreased rack, new control arm bushings, ball joints, and I want to seam weld the A-arms. So alignment #3 is just around the corner.
_________________
'80 924 M471,Wideband O2, Full coilover susp,23/19 sways,Bilstiens,KLA Strut Brace,Roll Bar,Test Pipe,BBS RS, Willwood BBK

25% of a '87 944 Chumpcar http://straightpipe.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=2454

'79 924 Sebring Edition(Sitting)