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Sebring '79 · Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:48 am Post subject: The 924 Balancing Act

As a previous owner of a Sebring '79 (almost 21-years ago - see avatar) I want another 924, but I'm trying to decide which one would be most appropriate for my situation these days.
I live in a condo, I have no access to meaningful tools (although I could buy some), no spare workspace, and all of my friends that could help me now live 175 miles away. So essentially I'm on my own, with the exception of whatever help I can get here.
One thing that I'm pretty sure of is that I KNOW I don't want another pre-1981 924. I liked my 924, but didn't dig the utter lack of reliability of my old car. Part of that was because the previous owner did absolutely ZERO maintenance, and I spent the next few years playing catch-up. I finally sold it in 1988.
However, when that car was running correctly the last 24-months I had it, I loved the car. Now I want another, but I want to temper my enthusiasm with just a touch of realistic practicality.
If I were to stick with a well cared for 1981 or 1982 (either NA or Turbo) or a 1987 or 1988 series II 924, which one is likely to give me the least trouble and be something I could reasonably maintain. I like the extra power of the Turbo and the series IIs, but not if it's going to double my cost of ownership.
I know the most expensive Porsche is a cheap one, and I'll pay top dollar for one that has been well cared for, but I was wondering which of the three possibilities is going to do the least financial damage to me assuming that all but the most minor of work will have to be farmed out to a local Porsche mechanic.
I have spent about 6 hours, both yesterday and today, reading this board but have not been able to come to any firm conclusions.
Also, after I buy whatever I'm going to buy (924, 924 Turbo, or 924S), what would be a reasonable cash reserve to have set aside to be able to keep this car on the road? It will be my second car, but I'd like to drive it every day if I could.
So, knowing my circumstances and limitations, what direction should I go in, 924, 924 Turbo, or a series II?

Thanks!

ideola · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15550 Location: Spring Lake MI

First off, IMO, your situation is less than ideal for owning a 20+ yr old car. No tools, no workspace, and no friends close by = lots of trouble and probably expense too when (not if) things go wrong.

That said, no question in my mind, the series II 931 is the way to go. If you can find a good example.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

Sebring '79 · Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:02 am Post subject:

That's the kind of definitive answer I wanted to hear ideola!
Thank you.

So the added cost of parts and maintenance really is offset by reliability on the series II?
I was hoping that would be the case, but I was also thinking that after this amount of time, they might be all suffering from the same age-related issues, and I would just be getting the higher parts cost.

ideola · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15550 Location: Spring Lake MI

Let me clarify...I was referring to a 1981-82 924 Turbo, which is a Series II 931. I think what you were referring to as a series II is actually the 1987-88 924S with the 2.5L motor.

My experience with the 2.5L platform was pretty negative in terms of reliability as well as ease of DIY repairs. If I had to pick between working on a 931 or a 924S out in the cold under a carport or condo parking lot, the 931 would be it. It is so much simpler to work on and can be done with a basic set of tools, which you could begin acquiring over time. It has similar if not better stock performance than the 2.5L and is not plagued by some of the oddities of that platform (like ORPV failure, difficult timing belt service, stupid thermostat setup, stupid setup on the power steering arrangement, and on and on). The NA 924 will be even easier than the turbo, but IMO, the added performance and potential of the 931 makes it worth the marginally higher degree of risk and cost associated with maintaining a 931.

Just my $.02. I'm sure there are others that will come to the defense of the 2.5L platform, so make sure you have a chance to see what others have to say.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

Sebring '79 · Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:15 am Post subject:

Rasta Monsta · Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 11733 Location: PacNW

Based on what you said, I would get a 924S. Make sure you buy one with documentation of a "front of engine service" within the last two years. The service should include an OEM water pump, belts and rollers. The tab should be $1500+.

1988 is the better year. . .15 more horsepower, and many 87s have shown early head gasket failures with no good explanation (other than a bad batch of gaskets).
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Toofah King Bad

WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3

ideola · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15550 Location: Spring Lake MI

FWIW, my 87 "S" had complete records dating back to the original owner. I purchased it from a local respected PCA member, the same guy who is doing all of my transmission work, so I'm reasonably confident he didn't take advantage of me. I had the FOES completed, which I knew was required soon upon purchasing the car. It was by far the least reliable and most expensive to keep road-worthy of my 5 running cars, the other 4 all being 1980 or 81 models.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

Paul · Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:09 pm Post subject:

FWIW my advice is to try to find a nice example of an 81 or 82 NA.
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

Sebring '79 · Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:16 pm Post subject:

From what I can tell the 1981 and 1982 924 Turbo engines are not an 'interference design"; is that correct?

The only thing that makes this a wobbler for me is the prospect of baking a turbo every 20k-30k miles.
That prospect scares me as much as snapping a timing belt on a '87 or an '88 924.

I do have time and lots of it, I just don't have infinite money, talent, or any local help to draw upon.

Paul · Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:36 pm Post subject:

All stock 924 turbo motors are interference, get the best 81 to 82 NA that you can find.
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

Chrenan · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 3903 Location: Canada

924guy · Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:55 pm Post subject:

given that situation, and having owned them all, Id have to go with an excellent condition 87 or preferably, 88 924s... my thinking on this is that there wont be much tinkering allowed, and when something does go wrong, its allot easier to have a late model serviced given all the 944's running about than it is a 2 liter variant. parts are also more available, as are people who still know how to work on them should the need arise. well maintained, they are pretty reliable, no less than the 2 liters, but unlike the 2 liters, when they break, you usually cant limp home in my experience. ive driven hundreds of mile on 3 cylinders in 924's, i wouldnt dream of trying that in a 2.5er... tough chopice to make, but buy the best you can find, and still get a pre purchase inspection from a reputable shop..
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Eric
78 924
82 931 SE "smokey"
99' VehiCross
Y2K Honda Insight
http://www.cardomain.com/id/924Guy
Performance by Pasha

Sebring '79 · Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:03 pm Post subject:

Cedric · Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 2803 Location: Sweden

Its more how nice cars you can find, not the model. A s2 turbo can be very nice daily driver. A friend who lives nearby found this car that has been in a garage for at least 10 years. He did a service and then it worked perfect. Because it was such a nice and well maintained car. On this board people seem to like cars that has stod on the bottom of the ocean for 15 years and then resurrect them. Fin yourself a nice 931s2 or a 924s and you will be happy. You can probably borrow a garage somewhere to do minor stuff. 924s is probably easier to find in good shape since they are at least 5 years newer

http://www.944sverige.com/forum/files/framifr_n_170.jpg
http://www.944sverige.com/forum/files/inne_3_134.jpg
(crack free dash board !!)
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1980 924 Turbo
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Sebring '79 · Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:33 pm Post subject:

That's an interesting point you make Cédric, but it still comes down to the problem that all of these cars are in the 20-25 year-old range and I think that even with the cleanest examples out there I'm still going to spend a trunk full of money rehabbing a 944S2 (into a daily driver), and that's assuming that nothing goes wrong along the way.
I can easily imagine having to spend five grand on one of those after I bought it.

I do really like the 16v 944S however.