924Board.org

[sgloki]

Hey, I hope this isn't misposted I did not think it belonged in the classifieds.

I am wanting some help in pricing for my car.

1977 NA 2.0l 924 (not a sebring)

Bad tires on good BBS snowflakes (the stock ones)

o.k. paint, needs buffed and some touch ups.
(orange with some odd hood decals as seen in my user avatar)

Electrical needs cleaned up around the fuse box and grounds, perhaps needs wiper motors for front and rear.

The crankshaft spun a bearing, before that she ran great.

The drivers seat has the typical small rip, and the interior needs cleaned up again. It needs weather striping around the doors.

The windshield has a small crack, but the rest of the glass is great, as is the carpet and interior bits (sans drivers seat rip and stickshift knob.)

I drove her home a few months back, and spun the bearing due to bad oil. The Previous owner tells me the top end of the engine was rebuilt with about 3 hours on the motor (too bad he didn't do the bottom end too huh?)


Anyway guys, please let me know what the approximate value is if you have any ideas. The blue book would call it a parts car which it is not. It just needs the engine pulled to put new bearings in the crankshaft, and the electrical gone through.

I might be interested in selling the old girl, or trading as I do not have a garage to properly repair her in. Parting her is not an option, this baby needs a loving owner who will put her on the road. She's plated as a classic and will never require tabs or emissions testing.
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All work and no speeding makes jack a dull boy.

[Chrenan]

I'd keep it if I were you. To be honest, that is a parts car, no matter how much you love it. To me, it is worth $200, I know you don't want to hear that. Sort out the engine and the electrical issues, and you could get much, much more.
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1987 951 - M193 Version for Japan

[huckster]

I would have t agree with Chrenan fix it and it could be worth more.
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77.5 project car have never driven. burgundy
79 parts car sea foam. blue new clutch and shifter bushings
79 driver yellow new shocks water pump shifter bushings
96 ford escort sw

[ideola]

It would be worth most as a parts car. You could make 5x-10x your money on parts if you're patient vs. trying to sell it as a running car.

Your biggest problem is going to be actually finding bearings. They are NLA. From anywhere. Unless you want to be the first guinea pig to try the Mercedes bearings I identified as a possible fit over in the main bearing cross reference thread.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

[sgloki]

Bummer. I guess it would be a good move to trade it for something more useful to me right now....or to just sit on it until I move in spring and can sort it out.


Are they really that rare? I was under the impression that this is almost the same as any VW 2.0 with the exception of oilpan, cam, pistons, bore, and the fact that the block is aluminum. wouldn't the bearings be the same?


All that aside, Bearings can be custom ordered in large batches, I suppose if I really had to have some made I would try to get a group buy on them going.


Anyway..... I can't part it out right now, but if I give up on it in the future and have a place to part it out I might think about it... this baby needs to go back on the road though, she's not junk!
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All work and no speeding makes jack a dull boy.

[ideola]

The 64mm bearings are unique to the 924 version of the Audi engine. All of the earlier variants of the engine used the 60mm variety, including the first 1300 or so 924's produced in 1976 and early 77. The Audi 100LS and several of the other earlier cars with this block used the 60mm variety cranks. The later AMC cars have the exact same part numbers as the 64mm engines, so they are NLA just like ours. Trust me, I have spent several hours poring thru multiple bearings catalogs.

Now, you might get lucky seeing as how you have a 1977. According to the tech specs booklet, if you have an XK code engine (LHD Europe/ROW) up through # 003213, an XH code engine (USA/Canada) up thru # 000021, or an XF code engine (California/Japan) up thru # 000010, you have the 60mm crank. It just so happens, I have three NOS sets of standard size 60mm bearings available for sale, $75 per set. Just out of curiosity, it would be interesting to know the code that is stamped on your engine.

As for a group buy on the 64mm bearings, yes, it could be done, theoretically. But the only bearing manufacturer that even expressed a willingness to do a run (ACL in Australia) requires a minimum order of 200 sets. I hate to burst your bubble, but it's not likely to happen, judging by the limited participation in several other recent group buys. It would also required $20K or more of up front money to make happen, and I for one wouldn't want the liability of brokering that large of a transaction involving scores of end users. In a word, the situation with these bearings is BLEAK unless those Mercedes versions pan out or some long lost stash of NOS bearings turns up on some forgotten FLAPS stockroom shelf.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

[sgloki]

Thanks for all the info. I did find the crank bearing thread here on 924 board after you mentioned that. Perhaps a better option would be to source a 2.0l VW crank from another model, hopefully to make a stroker however I am doubting I can find any such crank. If all else fails and I keep the car I may go with a chevy v8 conversion. A LS engine would be sweet. I don't have the engine numbers handy but I will post them in the future.

Thanks for the input everyone. Maybe I'll find someone who wants to restore it who will trade for a functioning toyota 4X4 or a chevy 1/2 ton 4X4. I could use one!
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All work and no speeding makes jack a dull boy.

[wombat]

so what is the deal with the crank bearings. Surely some other vintage car guys who have much older cars than ours have encountered a problem similar to this and overcome it. what are the options, I looked at the Merc spec bearings and am a little unsure about fit they are close but are they close enough??
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1977 924 2.0 Auto

[Rasta Monsta]

We are going to need to finance a production run of mains, probably with the help of a few vendors. It's the only way its gonna happen.
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Toofah King Bad

• WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3

[ideola]

The dealer rep for ACL-USA put me in touch with a guy who has a stockpile of old British bearings for really obscure things like Morgans and other now defunct makes. What other people do is find some suitable replacement from a "close enough" set from some other platform, or they have their old bearings "releaded" (very expensive from what I've read and heard), or they refinish their old bearings using the sandpaper method I copied and pasted into the bearing thread.

The best possible alternative is the first one listed above, IF (and yes, it is a big IF) you can find a set that has close enough specs to be substituted. Finding alternatives involves poring through bearing manufacturer catalogs. Which I have done for ACL, Kolbenschmidt, King, and Federal Mogul (I have still get my hands on a bonafide Glyco catalog). What you are looking for is a bearing that is close enough in the following dimensions:

• bearing diameter
  
• bearing wall thickness
  
• bearing length (it's called length, but to my mind, it's more like the width)
  
• housing diameter
  
• tolerance

Then, you have to find a set that has the correct parameters for not just the main bearings, but also in our case, the thrust bearing...and herein lies the rub...more on that in a moment.

Those parameters all have to be close enough that the crank and housings can be used as is or with very minor modification (ideally). There are other methods, such as turning down the crank journals, and welding inserts into the bearing caps & saddles, and then going with a smaller diameter journal in order to use smaller diameter bearings. But those kind of mods are not cheap, certainly not by the average 924 owner standards.

Now, as for our motors, the big problem isn't so much the four pair of bearing halves...although the 64mm size is relatively uncommon based on the searching I've done. The REAL problem is the flanged thrust bearings. I have identified several US and Japanese makes that have 64mm mains, but the thrust bearing is either non-existent, or it is much larger than the mains, or it uses thrust washers, or some combination thereof. According to the Kolby catalog, you can't adapt a thrust bearing configuration to use thrust washers. I don't know if this is just typical manufacturer caution, or if it is an insurmountable constraint due to some mechanical issue. This detail eclipses my knowledge on the matter.

Finding a substitute bearing set that has 64mm mains AND a 64mm thrust bearing is the challenge. The Mercedes part is the ONLY one I found that met those requirements. I'm not saying there aren't other alternatives. I'm just saying this is the only one I've found, and so far, no word from the British bearing dude.

As for the Merc part numbers, there are two primary concerns that I can see looking at the specs.

1. The thrust bearing is 1mm narrower than ours
   
2. The housing diameter appears to be larger than ours

What we really need is a REAL crankshaft expert to look at the specifications and render an opinion as to whether any of the Mercedes sets could be used. It is likely that the bearing saddle and cap for the #3 journal (the middle one) would have to be machined to accommodate the 1mm narrower thrust bearing from the Merc set at a minium. I can't imagine this being an inordinately expensive operation...should be doable by any shop capable of align-honing the mains. As for the tolerances and clearance issues, again, I'm out of my depth, so we need an expert. My intent is to talk to some of my local trusted advisors (Holbrook, Performance Crankshaft, Chuck's Engine Exchange) to see what they think.

In the meantime, we keep hunting for a source for either NOS bearings or a manufacturer willing to do a short run.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

[ideola]

[Rasta Monsta]

I may have found one willing to do 50, but that is still a lot of coin. I suppose they should be done first oversize for maximum flexibility. . .
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Toofah King Bad

• WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3

[ideola]

First oversize wouldn't hurt my feelings. If we can get a commitment for 50 from them and maybe another 10-20 sets on the board, it would be worth begging and pleading with ACL to see if they'd consider doing a run.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made