924Board.org

jc924turbo

hi.. guys.. I'm trying to get my 82 931 a head gasket job... I think it's leaking little bit of exhaust to the coolling system.... it wants to overheat ( passing middle range..when I push the engine little hard... and I don't want to distroy the engine.. It's due for a new gasket..

I did search the forum for this,.... and I'm starting to take off the exhaust end first,.. and the three bolts that is bolted on to the turbo.. (two on the top,... and one on the bottom..) is multi grooved bolt,... it's just not possible to loosen.. I see in the forum,.. that just took off.. but does not mention how.. I must be missing something.. some guys that have done it before,.. should know what I'm talking about..

do I need special socket to get those bolts off..??? my 1/2 inch fits pretty good,.. but not tight enough... keeps on twisting off... etc.. can't get enough torque to loosen it up.. I was able to get one off towards the front of the car,... but one that is towards the back on the top,.. ... just can't get it off.no clearance to put other types of wrench either.. tight spot.. . I did spray some wd-40,.. leave it overnite to let it soak,.. but still can't get it off..

I need your advise to get that bolt off... special socket..??? way of doing it..?? tips needed...

and I have some oil leaks on the turbo as well.. so I'm planning to take off the turbo to look into it.. oil is everywhere when I see from the bottom... I need your suggestions on this as well .. for the guys that have done it before..
I really need your help... thanks.. jc..

_________________
81 931 RED; My Real Toy
82 928 Gold; Weekend Toy
85 928 Red; Cruiser
97 Suburban My work truck
00 Explorer; No Problems.

!tom · Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:44 am Post subject:

The car is a german car, and therefore uses metric fastners.

Do not, under any circumstances, get your SAE sizes close to your car again!

You should ONLY use wrenches, sockets, allen keys, etc. marked in "mm," NEVER in inches.

The ONLY exception is when you find a brain-dead PO has installed an SAE bolt in a metric thread (like I found when pulling a spare engine from a car destined for the junk-yard last month), but I doubt this is your case.

Invest in some proper tools. It'll make your job far easier, and save your poor car. You wouldn't want to go in to the hospital for brain surgery and have the surgeon use orthopedic tools on you now, would you?
_________________
78 924 NA
5-lug

jc924turbo · Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:58 am Post subject:

Thanks for your input... I do have metric set... I did try with 12mm I think.. and was not as tight as 1/2 inch... but what I'm asking is do I need special socket for the multi grooved bolt on the exhaust..??? I think it's got like 20 grooves or so..not 6 sided bolts as usual.. . and that makes me think that I need special tool..??? your input is appreciated.. jc..
_________________
81 931 RED; My Real Toy
82 928 Gold; Weekend Toy
85 928 Red; Cruiser
97 Suburban My work truck
00 Explorer; No Problems.

jc924turbo · Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:44 am Post subject:

Yeah..I think I got the same stone headed p.o.. just like your prev. p.o.. that put the wrong size.. unbelievable...!! I think I ran into a stoned head p.o. who put a 1/2 in ,.. where it should have been metric one.... I really tried the 12mm, and does not go in.. 13 is just slipping.. so I put 1/2 in,.. and it fits perfect.. when the other one is 13mm so even it looks quite same,... it was not... some stoned heads.. now the question would be... did he put the right thread size..??? this may the problem,... that it does not want to come out... wish me luck guys.. man..!! I'm in for battle now..... this sucks.. jc..
_________________
81 931 RED; My Real Toy
82 928 Gold; Weekend Toy
85 928 Red; Cruiser
97 Suburban My work truck
00 Explorer; No Problems.

!tom · Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:53 am Post subject:

!tom · Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:56 am Post subject:

Oh yah -- I have no clue what "multi grooved" fastner you are talking about.

I've seen 12-point bolt heads where a 12-point box wrench or 12-point socket will fit. . . I don't have any 12-point sockets (6-point work far better except for these rare fastners), so I've always used box wrenches on these.
_________________
78 924 NA
5-lug

Petrovich · Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 235 Location: Rockville, MD

For taking off stubborn bolts that are corroded and do not work with a standard socket anymore, grab a set of special sockets from Sears - they look like sockets made of rifle barrels, with little grooves in them. You hammer those onto the fastener as hard as you can and then use a big wrench to turn them. It'll either pull the nut or break the stud - I've never had those sockets fail to take out a stuck fastener. To reduce the possibility of the second outcome (in which case you'll have to take out the broken stud as well), use heat. There's no better loosening product than a propane torch, and those are sold in kits at any Home Depot for like $15 a set (you need the one with the blue tank). Keep it under heat for a minute or so, then try a regular socket, and if you fail again, go for the rifled one.

I had a 76' Firebird that I tried to put headers on. On and off, I spent a month (ain't kiddin!) trying to dremel off stuck exhaust nuts, out in the freezing cold. Then did it the right way and took them all off in under an hour.

Good tools save time, money, and all the little pieces of flesh that you'd otherwise leave on the car

_________________
1982 924 Turbo, now Lemon

!tom · Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:07 am Post subject:

jc924turbo · Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:04 am Post subject:

hey.. all.... thanks for your inputs....
I finally got the top one off..// but struggling with the bottom one now... samething.. believe it or not,... top one came off with 1/2 sae... lol... but the bottom one is even worse than the top one,... and vertually no space to work on... gosh.... may be better off to cut the pipe ,,..???? I'll try not to destroy the pipe,... but at worst case,... I might have to... I really can't understand why on heck they put this kind a bolts in the exhaust... no clue at all regular sixes would have been a lot easier,..???/ at least for me...

anyways,... I'm off to get some better loosener formula,.. and spray it on the bolt... and let it soak...
meanwhile,... I'll be taking some stuffs off the top... if I run into anymore difficulties,.. I'lll let you know..... thanks for your input.... I'll take a bolt to autozone,.. and see if they got something that would work better.. thanks again gauys.. I really appreciated.. I'll be posting some more as I progress..jc..
_________________
81 931 RED; My Real Toy
82 928 Gold; Weekend Toy
85 928 Red; Cruiser
97 Suburban My work truck
00 Explorer; No Problems.

jc924turbo · Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject:

Happy holloween.. everyone... trick or treat.. treat me with infos... lol..lol..lol... I'm sitting here,.. with bag full of candies,.. for all the trick or treaters..

Well.. finally got my exhaust bolts off... that was a struggle... I went all over town,.. looking for the right sockets... and finally got it... the bolt to fit is 12 sided 12mm.. and why on earth is it so hard to buy these..?? I remember these 12sided sockets were all over,... I even went to K-mart,.. which is sears now,.. and sell all craftsmen tool,.. and they did not have it either... incredible,...... I must have gone to at least 20 stores,.. before I finally found it....

I had the bolts soaked up for couple of days,.. so I thought with these 12mm 12 sided would just get them like butter... But.. wishful thinking.. was a good fit,... but had to struggle a lot,... had to use extension pipe,.. to twist off... I was on my back... with very little room to move,.. As you know it was gonna be my last try... before I would cut the pipes off,.. like some of the guys in this forum had done... I was ready for it too,... with my grinder with metal blade.. of course,.. that does not mean that I can get the bolts off,... just to get more clearance of the space to work....

Anyhow,.. the bolts are off.. on a holoween nite,.. with my candy bag.... lol..lol.....lol.. ha haha.. I'll post the ongoing progress as I go.... I took the intake off,.. and I'm ready for the head take off,.. but I'll do it tomorrow,.. it's too late at nite,.. I need my sunshine in my garage,.. to see what the heck I'm doing... someone trick or treat me...with infos... lol...LOL...LOL.. ha.. ha... ha... jc..
_________________
81 931 RED; My Real Toy
82 928 Gold; Weekend Toy
85 928 Red; Cruiser
97 Suburban My work truck
00 Explorer; No Problems.

924guy · Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:03 pm Post subject:

hope you had plenty of candy, youll need the sugar... when you see the cost of replacement bolts for those flanges, you may pass out....
_________________
Eric
78 924
82 931 SE "smokey"
99' VehiCross
Y2K Honda Insight
http://www.cardomain.com/id/924Guy
Performance by Pasha

jc924turbo · Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:11 pm Post subject:

Hey.. 924 guy... can you tell me how much they go for..??? and why did you have to get new one's..??
_________________
81 931 RED; My Real Toy
82 928 Gold; Weekend Toy
85 928 Red; Cruiser
97 Suburban My work truck
00 Explorer; No Problems.

924guy · Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:37 pm Post subject:

high heat tolerance self locking bolts, some are $40+ each from Porsche, and hard to find elsewhere... I think I paid $24 each for them about three years ago, but only the three or four on the turbo to exhaust flange. There are alternatives.

check out this thread

http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=21979&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=exhaust+bolts&start=0

for the exhaust manifold studs i used 928 copper bolts, without issue, and much more reasonable.

as to why replace them, many are one use only and distort once applied, thats what theyre supposed to do, while sometimes you can get them to work again, it can be a crap shoot and they may fail later.
_________________
Eric
78 924
82 931 SE "smokey"
99' VehiCross
Y2K Honda Insight
http://www.cardomain.com/id/924Guy
Performance by Pasha

jc924turbo · Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:30 am Post subject:

WOW.... good infos.... well.. mine looks allright for now... I'll see what happnes when I put them back... like you/and the post said,... it might fail later on,... I'll be looking into new one's anyways,... just in case... I'm not a racer,... even though I like to push once in a while,... well.. it's a porsche,.... and that's why I'm doing a head gasket job....

for regular driving was good,.... but when I really push,... 5,000 rpm and higher,... temp gauge would go to the middle, and higher.. did not overheat.. yet,... anyways,.. I do not want to take chances...

I put new water pump,.. new thermostat,.. radiator flushed,.. checked the fans,.. etc.. it's all good...and when I checked for head gasket,... it really looked to be original.. I don't think the p.o. had replaced the gasket.. so I know it's due...it's got 130km... couple of cylinders were giving low numbers on the comprssion test,... very little leak on the leak down test...etc..probably burnt a little or something..

I did get the gasket set .... it's felpro,... I searched the forum,... and found many good posts,.. and many related infos..... good stuff.. it would help alot....as I go..I hope one that I got is the right one,.. being turbo.. and some say that should be a different one,.. ; different gauge..?? a little different hole format..?? . sometimes one can run into a special problem,... and that's when we need help...

I hope everything will go smooth,.. but who knows.. I have seen some guys with so many troubles,.. that it's pathetic.... not even worth it... I just got to cross my fingers,... and continue..

I'm sure I'll run into something,.. that's when I really need your suggestions,... help.. etc... well... without this forum,... I might not even have started the job..I know there's few fpo level guys in this forum.. and I'm really counting on it.. I'll be taking my head off pretty soon,... and wish that some of you would be there to help...

If... there is something that I should watch out for,.. please let me know... like... watch out for certain bolts,.. that might break off.... gosh I hate it when those bolts break..!!!! pain in the ..XXXXX...stuffs like that.... thanks in advance... jc..
_________________
81 931 RED; My Real Toy
82 928 Gold; Weekend Toy
85 928 Red; Cruiser
97 Suburban My work truck
00 Explorer; No Problems.