924Board.org

OfficeLinebacker · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 31 Location: Washington, DC area

I am the proud new owner of a 1989 924S that, once the battery was charged, starts and runs.

The previous owner reported that it overheated/overheats. After a few months he realized that he just didn't have the time or skills to fix it himself and sold it to me for a song.

Upon further inspection, the oil is milkshake and there's a little oil in the coolant reservoir.

I bought the car assuming it'd need a head gasket or worse, but since then I've discovered the issue with the oil cooler o-rings.

Any thoughts? I am a competent mechanic but these engines are one step above the Camrys and Impalas, and even VWs, that I usually work on. Even just R&Ring the oil cooler looks like the work of the better part of a Saturday.

What sayeth you, my brethren?

9xx · Joined: 18 Jun 2006 Posts: 627 Location: Jarvenpaa, Finland

I've repaired one 944 with this problem but that car wasn't overheating. It just had oil in the coolant reservoir. I don't want to depress you but your problem could actually be the head gasket.

Anyway, this oil cooler job is quite suitable for any home mechanic. Just follow the instructions. The only tricky thing is how to aling the OPRV. You can do it without the special alignment tool but be carefull.

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/lube-01.htm
_________________
Mikko

All gone: 931 '82 Alpine White, original option "220" G31 with LSD + 3 x 944

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

Congrats on your new car.

BUT, there isn't any such thing as a 1989 924S. The 924S was only manufactured during the 1986-1988 model years, and Porsche did not import any 1986 models to the U.S. What size is the engine? 944s got a 2.7L engine in 1989 (last year of production) What is the VIN Number on the car (in the doorjam or in the windshield, the number by the battery is the consecutive chassis production number, not the VIN number)? What is the serial number of the engine? On 1988 and later model engines, the serial number is stamped on the right side of the block. On 1987 and earlier engines the serial number is stamped on a flat spot at the rear top of the engine close to the flywheel sensor bracket.

The 924S is a completely different horse than any Japanese car or Chevy. Keeping it running will require a different maintenance philosophy and special tools that are not used on any other manufacturer's cars, or even other Porsches (except watercooled ones).

Overheating? Most probably a blown headgasket. The 1987 models are especially known for blown headgaskets around the 100K mile range (common on 1987 model year cars with between 90K-110K miles).

Is the oil level rising?

Don't start the engine any more until the problem is fixed. The oil cooler seal problem allows coolant into the oil system, and coolaznt is a poor substitute for oil. If coolant has been in the oil for long, you are going to be replacing the bearings, and if the overheating is due to a severe, prolonged mixing incident, you could be looking for a replacement engine. The camshaft does not ride on replacement bearings (fortunately used cam towers are available in abundance, as lots of engine blocks get trashed (not economically repairable).

Do not attempt to replace the headgasket or the oil cooler seals without the correct tools. The results of a bungled timing belt replacement or adjustment are expensive (bent or broken valves, and sometimes a ruined engine block), as is the incorrect alignment of the OPRV (oil pressure relief valve) passage between the oil cooler housing and the engine block (low or no oil pressure and a totalled engine). If you are serious about servicing the car correctly, you need the Porsche Factory Service Manual. There was a Porsche Dealer advertising them at the bargain rate of only $175 a few months ago in the PCA (Porsche Club of America) monthly magazine PANORAMA, and in Excellence magazine. Sorry, but I don;t remember which Dealer it was.

OfficeLinebacker · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 31 Location: Washington, DC area

Whoops. It's a 1987. I guess I'll go ahead and order the head gasket kit, the tools, and dive in.

Also note, the overheating is as reported by the previous owner. I haven't run it enough to know. In the few seconds it's been run, no knock in the engine or anything.

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

Milkshake + overheating = blown headgasket.

While you are in there you should have the head serviced since it probably has 100K miles or more.

You are about to learn more about the FOES (Front Of Engine Service), as you need to remove the belts to service the cylinder headgasket. Don't cheap out on generic parts. Rebuilt waterpumps are risky. The FOES Parts are going to cost you at least $500-$600 (generic). If you buy them from Porsche (best quality, and two-year unlimited mileage warranty), you are going to be over $1000. Waterpump, bearing equipped pulleys and rollers, front of engine oil seals, timing belt, balance shaft belt.

And, since you just bought the car, and don't know the history, you need to replace the oil cooler seals, and make sure that the OPRV (oil pressure relief valve) is a one-piece unit, and not the old failure prone three-piece unit. The oil cooler housing was superceeded to help prevent oil cooler seal failure, and you should have the Porsche TB (technical bulletin) or the Factory Service Workshop Manual to correctly identify the oil cooler housing that you have and to see how to assemble and set the seal stack height so you don't create an oil cooler seal leak. There is are Special Porsche Tools designed to align the oil cooler housing (make sure that you buy the right one (based on the engine block and the OPRV type that is used with your engine block) when reinstalling it so it doesn't hang the OPRV. If you have the old three-piece OPRV, and need to replace it, the cost is somewhere between $300-$400 (can only buy it from Porsche).

bcblase · Joined: 23 Oct 2007 Posts: 574 Location: Winchester, VA

Geeez Gohim... you make owning these cars sound so rosy.

(I got the same lectures when I first join this Board, and I'm still here, so don't despair!)

BC
_________________
1987 Porsche 924S - track toy
1986 Mercedes 190E 2.3-16v - autocross
2007 F-150 5.4L Lariat Supercrew - tow beast
1994 Volvo 850 Race Wagon - 24 Hours of Lemons Car
2001 BMW 325xi - daily driver

OfficeLinebacker · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 31 Location: Washington, DC area

Well it's been a while and I've gone through some personal travails while the Porsche lay fallow, but I'm ready to attack it.

Question: does the oil cooler have to be disassembled to do the head gasket?

Rasta Monsta · Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 11733 Location: PacNW

Answer: no (but t'would be foolish to skip. . .seals are updated!).
_________________
Toofah King Bad

WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3

Slam · Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:33 am Post subject:

Porsche recommends the rod bearings be changed in the event the oil cooler seals are stuffed and the oil and coolant mix.

If you do it all at once you'll have another 100,000 miles of enjoyable driving. FOES notwithstanding.
_________________
'84 944 - kid blew motor
'83 944 - resting comfortably. For 12 years
'87 944 - sideswiped by trucker
'80 924 - gone
'78 924 - gone
'77 924 - rusting comfortably

OfficeLinebacker · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 31 Location: Washington, DC area

OfficeLinebacker · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 31 Location: Washington, DC area

Oh man. I went crazy trying to remove the oil cooler--I didn't even get past the oil sending unit! I don't have the right freaking wrench. No space to swing anything I got, but I figured maybe getting the PS pump out of the way might help....

The underside of the car is SOOO full of gritty grease build up. SOOO gross. You know the kind. I think the engine is weeping at the distributor to cam cover junction. So it's just coating the nooks and crannies around the PS pump.

Just getting the stupid thing out of the bracket was a job. I got the adjuster off no problem. Then it was time to get the back part out. What a complicated setup! First I loosen the front nut--I figure it's just a big long bolt and I can push it through the back, but no. OK I take the bolt out the back. STILL won't come out!

Turns out those bushings are supposed to just slide out, but there's so much grease and grime that it's stuck. Of course the back one slides out, but the front one that needs to come out for the pump to come out is stuck. I soaked it with PB Blaster. I was at wit's end, and finally I kind of put a wrench up to it and at the most favorable angle possible (which wasn't that great, maybe 50 degrees) whacked it with a hammer and it came out.

Then I STILL can't get the darn oil pressure sender out cos I don't have a wrench with thin enough tines on the open end, or short enough that I can swing it past the sway bar! AAAAAAAHHHHHHH!

So anyway I realized you know what, I'm just kidding myself with the whole hope that it's the oil cooler anyway, might as well just start dismantling the top of the dang engine anyway. I figure once I get the head and headers off the cooler I can get to no problem.

So in less time than I spent agonizing over the stupid I had the fuel rail and intake out (and the injectors stayed stuck in the intake, I had to take the fuel rail off the back of the injectors and the injectors came off with the intake.

I couldn't find the proper view port for finding TDC per Clark's garage--but now that I have the intake off, the pistons are right there so I guess it's just a matter of popping the timing cover off and making sure the cam sprocket is aligned while #1 piston is at the highest point of travel.

The engine is surprisingly easy to turn over via the crank pulley.

OfficeLinebacker · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 31 Location: Washington, DC area

One of the reasons I give up on the oil cooler is that I'm pretty sure it's been redone. The housing doesn't seem to line up perfectly and one of the bolts, the one that also holds the wire grommet for the pressure sender, doesn't match. That plus the fact that it's an early 87 (06/86 manu date) makes me think it's been redone.

I'll still probably take it out once I get the head off, but we'll see.

Oh the part number of the cooler cover ends with 5P or 5S. 944 107 149 5 something.

I'll have to look it up, I remember seeing something about an updated cover.

Oh and I even had a devil of a time getting the dang oil filter off! The hose from the coolant tube that runs along the side of the head to the piece where the coolant flow joins with the coolant coming back from the radiator had swollen and was impinging on the oil filter.

Paul · Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:48 am Post subject:

A crows foot works great on the oil sender....
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

Paul · Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:02 am Post subject:

There is a window on the lowest part of the bellhousing (under the car) and a mark for TDC on the flywheel.
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

bcblase · Joined: 23 Oct 2007 Posts: 574 Location: Winchester, VA

Welcome to the 924S/944 engine world...lots of tricky little things to figure out, and a few special tools needed. I bought a set of "thin wrenches" for working on various things - oil pressure sender, timing belts, etc.

I'm not too far away if you need to borrow something.

BC
_________________
1987 Porsche 924S - track toy
1986 Mercedes 190E 2.3-16v - autocross
2007 F-150 5.4L Lariat Supercrew - tow beast
1994 Volvo 850 Race Wagon - 24 Hours of Lemons Car
2001 BMW 325xi - daily driver