924Board.org

[Squeaky]

Hi everyone!

I'm new to Porsches and I'm considering buying a 924S or 924 Turbo.

Here are my questions:

I know the Turbo has about 20 more HP than the S, but how laggy is the stock turbo? Is is worth it over the 2.5 in the S?

What type of fuel mileage numbers are we looking at for both cars?

How expensive are parts?

How reliable are they?

And how are they insurance wise? I'm looking at an '82 Turbo, and since it's an antique I'm thinking it will be pretty affordable, but like I said, I'm new to these and really don't know.

Any help would be appreciated!

[Rasta Monsta]

I have both. As you might be aware, suspensions and brakes are the same. Overall, I prefer driving the 931. . .I added an intercooler and upped the boost and it blows away the S.

924S:

The Good: Strong, smooth engine. Power steering. Shares many parts with 944, so parts availability is not a problem.

The Bad: Requires expensive front-of-engine service at regular intervals. EFI parts inherently more costly. Soup-up-ability very limited and expensive.

931:

The Good: Mechanical FI always runs. Small boost increases yield spleen dislodging power increases. Many parts dirt cheap (ie, water pump). Rare. Cool.

The Bad: Turbo unit can be short-lived due to poor thermal management. Cracked turbine housings and exhaust manifolds. Worn out cams, expensive valve train components. Some hard parts going NLA. Ignition control system can be fussy.

Stay tuned for Paul's traditional 'vibrating beast' response.
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Toofah King Bad

• WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3

[gohim]

Welcome to the Board ! ! !

I suggest that you do more research before trying to come to any conclusions.

The 86-88 924S (150-160hp) basically has the same hp rating as the 79-82 931/924 Turbo (143-154hp).

Maintenance of either of these cars is going to be expensive. Both of these cars have interference engines, meaning if the timing belt id not replaced on time according to schedule, the engine can crash (bent valves and big $$$ at the very least) when the timing belt breaks. 931s eat turbos every 10-25K miles, with a replacement cost of $1500-$2000 for a rebuild. The 924S requires the Front of Engine Service every 3 years or 30K miles ($1500-$2500).

They are both the same basic chassis, with the 924S being slightly newer and featuring refinements that you will not get on the 931 (like improved ventilation system (except 1982 931), power steering, optional power sunroof, and alloy rear trailing arms.

If you can't afford to spend or bank $1200-$1500 a year for scheduled maintenance and/or repair, you cannot afford one of these cars, buy a 80-82 924 2.0L. Much slower (110-115hp) but the cost of ownership is much lower, and the car is easier to service yourself with less expensive parts.

Just because a car is older does not mean that parts are cheaper, or insurance is less expensive. The parts are harder to find for a 931, more expensive if you can find them, and your insurance company is not going to pay you much for the car, if it is totaled in an accident, even if you can document your life savings being poured/invested in the car.

[924RACR]

Added to all the above, the 924S can achieve 32mpg on highway - the 931 will not really break 27 or 25 - it's because of the antiquated fuel management system.

I would recommend, of the two, that you consider the 924S more. The 931 may ultimately yield greater performance for less money (maybe), but it'll be a long time wrenching before you get there.

And yes, as gohim said, if you are marginal on affording either, chose neither, and get a 2.0L NA 924 instead. Quite easy and cheap to work on, much harder to bugger up.
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Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[Khal]

I've not owned an S (have owned a Turbo for a while now) but I have driven a good S and have driven (and been driven in) several good Turbos. Agree with all above and to add my two cents (assuming good or very good condition for both versions for the sake of comparison), the S is a much 'nicer' car to drive than the Turbo... but if you're a nutter for turbo's, well, the Turbo has a turbo! (performance difference, in reality, is negligible... at least when they're both stock)

What are you after, in general terms? A daily driver (shudder)? A Sunday sports car? A track-day funster? Or perhaps a track-day terror..?
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'80 924 Turbo

[morghen]

never driven a 924S but have driven late 944 wich is the same car...so:

in terms of money:
If you have no serious income...dont buy any.
if you have a decent income buy the turbo, pay for top quality service get it runing perfectly and enjoy the power it delivers.
If you have some money now but dont earn that much but still can get 2K unde the materass for the front end service...buy the S.
If you have a modest income you can get the NA...it will keep you happy.

in terms of driving:
The S feels light,easy to drive in the city and very happy to go anywhere.
The turbo feels like a tractor compared to the S.
My car is the hardest car to drive i have ever driven. In the city its a nightmare. Feels like a very heavy and big car(but very fast and i'm always stressed not to give it too much gas or i'll end up in a crash), the turbo exhaust heats up my feet...steering is heavy...etc etc.(but i have fat tires and my car realy is a bit bigger..but not that much)

HOWEVER....the turbo will smoke the S at any performance test...and...most important thing:

if you dont drive it at rushhour none of the bad things matter as your feet dont heat up and the steering becomes just perfect at speed.

bottom line:
The S is a civilized decent and easy to drive car in any condition but not so fast.

The turbo is older so more of a tractor...but it was made to go fast not to go shopping.
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Supercharger and EFI kits
https://www.the924.com

[tuurbo]

I've driven the S and really liked it.

The 931 IS like a tractor until you get it up to speed, then it's fast.

If you want a more practical car the S takes it.
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1980 924 turbo, MSD, Meth. Inj, otherwise stock.

[Khal]

[Squeaky]

Ok, well put it this way...

This would be my first car (PLEASE don't flame me, give me a chance).

It WILL be my daily driver, but I don't need anything super practical. I love Miatas, but the Porsches are cheaper around here, and they aren't very practical, but they are more so than the Mazda, so that's a plus.

I go to a tech school for automotive, and will do ALL the work myself, therefor LABOR costs are NOT an issue, just PARTS. How much are the parts for the regular service and turbo rebuild?

Could some more poeple who own or have driven both comment on the handling? Maybe compare to another car like a Miata even?

Also, I do plan to autocross and run track days.

[Eturbo924]

I have owned neither so take that into consideration.

I have owned many 2.0L 924s and a 1983 944. I would argue that the 83-1985 944 is the closest to the 924S of the 944s.

Anyway I have also driven two 931s.

I have not driven a 924S yet. Hope to soon.

That said I can agree with much of the discussion above. I can also note that if you research the performance of these cars in America the tests are all over the place. I would argue that the 924S especially the 1988 with 160hp is just as quick as the 931 (unmodified)

I have seen 7.6 sec to 60 for the 924S and then seen 8.5 sec as well in another test. Have seen almost exactly the same performance from different mags on the 931.

Ok my pitch normally is to show other things that the 2.0L 924 has over the rest.

Non interference engine (as noted above)
Does not have power steering pumps and racks that frequently leak on 924S.
Does not have slave cylinder for clutch which frequently fails on 924S and 931.
Does not have rubber center clutch (924S) which can fail if you do to many burn outs.
Has a very simple engine which can get 30 mpg if you are not putting your foot into it all the time... though to get a NA 924 2.0L moving you frequently need to

To disagree with some of the above. I have read many reports that say the 1981-82 turbos can get 30 plus mpg if you are not speeding all the time. Nice steady 60 mph can get you decent gas mileage if the car is properly tuned.

Note this another push for a 2.0L 924. It can run on regular gas... the turbo and 1988 924S should be on premium only. Maybe the 924S can get away with Mid grade but at 10:1 compression I think it needs the 93 Octane?

Anyway that said I have a 1982 924 and am currently looking for either a 931 or 924S. Since it will be more of a daily driver so a 1988 924S might be the best.... if I can find one that is not in Florida over 1500 miles away from me! DOU
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1982 924
1992 968
2003 C4S
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[Khal]

[gohim]

Oops,

Double Post

[gohim]

I would like to point out that the tools used for the 924S/944 Front of Engine Service are not used on any other cars except watercooled Porsches, and are unlikely to be found at any US Automotive Service School.

If you are planning on doing your own service, that's great, it's the only way that many/most of us can afford to keep these cars.

But, that also means that you will have to buy all of the tools necessary to do the work correctly. A set of Mickey Mouse Aftermarket Specialty Tools will cost you $300-$400. The real things (which you will want as a Professional Auto Mechanic) will cost you a minimum of $700-$800. The P9201 belt tension gauge will cost at least $400, and you need to buy the calibration bar as well (another $50). Then. there is the balance shaft wrench, belt tensioner wrench, flywheel lock, etc...

The parts used in the Front of Engine Serivce will cost $500-$1500 depending one where you buy them, and the brand of the parts. The is a wide variation in parts quality, depending on what you pay.

No special odd-ball tools required for the 931. The last turbo rebuild kit that I bought cost about $200, and does not include anything other than bushings, bearings, gaskets, and hardware. If you need to replace a housing or shaft, you pay extra. The gaskets for replacing a turbo are sold separately, and last time I checked, a set of parts would cost close to $200.

First car?

Stick with the 924 2.0L until you have more money, and experience working on Porsches.

[Rasta Monsta]

[Squeaky]