924Board.org

9xx · Joined: 18 Jun 2006 Posts: 627 Location: Jarvenpaa, Finland

What do you guys think about the 931's steering? I find it slow, too slow!

If I remember correctly, the 924 n/a has faster steering. Am I right? 944's definitely have faster steering.

Is there anything to do to make it faster? My little Porsche is such a fun car to drive and I'm always looking forward to drive it but then there is that steering...

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Mikko

All gone: 931 '82 Alpine White, original option "220" G31 with LSD + 3 x 944

-nick · Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 2699 Location: Cambridge, MA

How's your alignment? Too much toe-in will hurt the steering response dramatically. After that, how are your tires? Performance tires will have a stronger side wall and give much better response, although a harsher ride too.
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1980 931S
15psi boost, MS-II, EDIS, 951 IC, custom intake, Ford 5.0L throttle body, Forge BOV, WB o2, G31 w/LSD, 964 wheels, 968 rear sway, Bilsteins, 200# Welt. springs. A laptop, and a partridge in a pear tree.
1991 964 C4 Cabriolet

9xx · Joined: 18 Jun 2006 Posts: 627 Location: Jarvenpaa, Finland

I'm not sure about the alignment. It goes straight and feels solid. No drama there. But you really have to turn the wheel to make it turn.

The car has Pirelli 6000 tires and they are evenly worn. (Or how do you say in english?)

Well anyway, I'm going to refurbish the suspension, brakes and bushings in the front. I guess alignment comes after that.

But that steering still puzzles me. I allready checked underneath the car. Everything looks good (well old and worn but normal). Definitely no accident damage anywhere.

EDIT: I started to think about the alignment. I have invoices starting from year 1982 to this day and there no signs of alignment work done. Oh boy, maybe it hasn't been done ever. Plus all the worn components in the suspension...

That could explain it partially.
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Mikko

All gone: 931 '82 Alpine White, original option "220" G31 with LSD + 3 x 944

462avi · Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:42 pm Post subject:

I'm not sure if it helps but my car had super stiff steering. I mean I had to two fist it even at higher speeds. It ultimately ended up being the upper strut bearings. One was completely frozen the other was on its way out as well. Just a thought. Also according to what I have read, the 924 turbo has a somewhat slower steering ratio. It is 4 turns lock to lock were I believe the 924 n/a is 3.

Geoff
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2005 C230K
2002 grand cherokee with 4.7L

9xx · Joined: 18 Jun 2006 Posts: 627 Location: Jarvenpaa, Finland

Hmmm, upper strut bearings. Now there's a thought, I'll add those to my refurbishing list.
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Mikko

All gone: 931 '82 Alpine White, original option "220" G31 with LSD + 3 x 944

Smoothie · Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:52 am Post subject:

Get a few drops of oil onto the steering shaft u-joints - whether or not you have steering stiffness, this is good preventive maint.

931 and other cars with th 5-bolt wheel option got a slower steering rack. A Search for all terms on steering rack ratio brings back a bunch of relevant posts.
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"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."

'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox

Cedric · Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 2818 Location: Sweden

what i remember from PET is that both 931 and 924 has the same rack...
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1980 924 Turbo
www.instagram.com/garagecedric/

-nick · Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 2699 Location: Cambridge, MA

I couldn't measure any difference between the number of turns to lock and the displacement of the rack arms when I sat my M471 931 rack next to a '77.5na rack.

Caster angle can make the wheels harder to turn also. Does the wheel snap back to straight quickly when you let go? I say go for an alignment first.
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1980 931S
15psi boost, MS-II, EDIS, 951 IC, custom intake, Ford 5.0L throttle body, Forge BOV, WB o2, G31 w/LSD, 964 wheels, 968 rear sway, Bilsteins, 200# Welt. springs. A laptop, and a partridge in a pear tree.
1991 964 C4 Cabriolet

Smoothie · Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:50 am Post subject:

Wo easy there - check and replace components if necessary first, and lube, then align, right?

I'd be willing to guess that 2 days wasn't enough time for most to do the search, so here's them specs again -

924NA (and 4-bolt 931) -
19.15:1 - steering wheel ratio in the middle
10.08m - turning circle diameter
9.21m - track circle diameter
4.02 - steering wheel turns from lock to lock

931 (5-bolt, M471) -
22.39:1 - steering wheel ratio in the middle
10.3m - turning circle diameter
9.5m - track circle diameter
4.02 - steering wheel turns from lock to lock

That's from the tech specs booklet, but it's also shown in the Haynes (Chapter 8 Steering, Specifications).
-So between your cars, Cedric, you should actually have the two different ratios. -But I seriously doubt that it makes much difference if noticable at all and would just be kooky to go to the trouble of swapping racks. You'd get a similar effect ("faster" steering, but without any change to the turning circle) by changing to a smaller steering wheel, but in the process, any bearing, tire inflation, alignment, lube, etc. problems that are inhibiting the steering would be amplified.
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"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."

'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox

924guy · Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:36 am Post subject:

i think the 931 steering rack, at least in my 82 is pretty much perfect. yeah, its a little tough at slow speeds, but at high speeds, i think it works to your advantage for better control, especially over bumps and road ruts. It used to be fairly popular to install bump steer kits in n/a 924's, not really needed in the 931.. with the small sport wheel, and even slightly over sized tires, never an issue for me...
also dont forget, the 931 is , by nature, a bit more brutish than a n/a 924 , and far more than a 83+ 944 or late 924S.. this isnt some luxury cruiser, its about as true a sports car as you can get, and itll remind you of that constantly, thats whats its supposed to do..

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Eric
78 924
82 931 SE "smokey"
99' VehiCross
Y2K Honda Insight
http://www.cardomain.com/id/924Guy
Performance by Pasha

9xx · Joined: 18 Jun 2006 Posts: 627 Location: Jarvenpaa, Finland

simsport · Joined: 06 Nov 2002 Posts: 573 Location: UK Warrington

The problem with quicker racks is that when it all gets out of shape you have to remember to correct it less or it just gets worse.

If you do rallycross or similar then yes, sideways,( a long way0 sideways is normal and a quick rack will help. But for a tarmac car its not going to add anything much.

For my money I'd aim to spend money/time on making sure the car grips well enough not to need it!

Cheers
Simon
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Blown is always best!