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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11733
Location: PacNW
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 Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:01 am Post subject: Tie Rods? |
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What is the deal with tie rods for Shaggy? I am confused by PET showing a supercession to a 944 part number from a 477. . .but the rack doesn't change. PET references a tech bulletin for this, but I don't have it.
Oh, and the 477 part is NLA. I am asking b/c I have a bad inner joint. . .will convert outers to a heim joint.
Oh, that reminds me. . .what is the thread for the outers? Anyone got a good source for heim joints?
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Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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Ron Henderson
Joined: 06 Jan 2009
Posts: 21
Location: San Clemente, CA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:16 am Post subject: |
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You can give ma e a call on the rod end bearings (Heim is a brand).. You can get standard ball joints from Engine Builder Supply in Reno.. We sell standard rod ends---951-312-1625 Ron Henderson---I'll need to know what the threads are
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Ron Henderson
Kaman Industrial Technologies
951-312-1625 cell |
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ic932
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Tie Rods? |
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| Rasta Monsta wrote: | What is the deal with tie rods for Shaggy? I am confused by PET showing a supercession to a 944 part number from a 477. . .but the rack doesn't change. PET references a tech bulletin for this, but I don't have it.
Oh, and the 477 part is NLA. I am asking b/c I have a bad inner joint. . .will convert outers to a heim joint.
Oh, that reminds me. . .what is the thread for the outers? Anyone got a good source for heim joints? |
The same tie rods from the 931 were also used on early 944's before power steering became standard equipment. That would explain why there was a supercession to a 944 part number. |
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: Tie Rods? |
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| Rasta Monsta wrote: | | Anyone got a good source for heim joints? |
These are the suppliers I've been perusing while trying to determine a source for a bump-steer-adjusted rod end setup:
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RC
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
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Location: Australia
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11733
Location: PacNW
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:46 am Post subject: |
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Bump steer mod, already have the modded spindles. . .
Yeah, so I found the same tie rods. Expensivo, no?
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- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:14 am Post subject: |
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Rasta, I think those spindle conical spacers are bonafide D-Prod parts, or very clever copies. As for the spindle itself, I'd assume yours is a typical 931 spindle that was hogged out to accept the spacer, as the D-Prod spindles have different spacing to accommodate the larger same-era 911 single pot calipers that were apparently used on the D-Prod cars. See here for more info.
As for the tie rods, this eBay seller supplies a complete kit (yes, BOTH tie rods, ends and boots) for $132.99 (here's a link to a Buy-It-Now current as of this posting), supposedly part number 944 347 033 01K (haven't bothered to check that against PET, but I assume from his listing it is the correct part). Cheapest price I've seen, I'll probably either buy this part or the power-steering equivalent from the same seller depending on which route I go on the UWB, and whether or not I'm successful with the power steering conversion on the 941.
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11733
Location: PacNW
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:38 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, Dan, I added that to my watch list.
So, who knows the correct thread for the outer end?
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- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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RC
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 2637
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:57 am Post subject: |
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I do now. It`s actually M14 x 1.5.
Now you know too. |
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11733
Location: PacNW
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:04 am Post subject: |
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Tracked down another site you spherical bearing rod end nerds might be interested in. . .
Baker Precision Bearings, out of my beloved Cali.
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- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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RC
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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I'm still on the fence regarding this mod, whether to use off-the-shelf rod ends and bolts, or just go with the bolt-on item from Elephant Racing. Here is the reply I got from Chuck when I enquired about their more complicated design:
| Chuck @ Elephant Racing wrote: | | The yoke adds strength. It shares the bending load with the bolt. We’ve seen examples of other non-supported bump steer kits break off. That isn’t pretty. |
| I wrote: | Thanks for the response. I should have clarified, my application is for 30% track duty in HPDE events, not competitive race events. I can see the add'l strength factor offered by the yoke...just wondering if it might be overkill in my case...
Does the steering arm on the spindle need to be machined for the bolt? |
| Chuck @ Elephant Racing wrote: | The bolt fits fine without machining. You may need to take file to the widest part of the steering knuckle, knocking down the peak about .5mm per side to fit into the yoke.
No I don’t think the strength is overkill. Your greatest load on the tie rod / steering knuckle is when you hit a bump – eg. A gator or an off. This happens is DE just as does in a full race car |
Part of the question, I suppose, is whether the D-Prod conical spacers that Rasta and I have would share enough bending load to prevent such a failure. Thoughts?
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't see any metric rod ends listed on their site 
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11733
Location: PacNW
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 1:55 am Post subject: |
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Those sleeves, installed in the knuckle with a high grade fastener through them would survive the car being tossed off a cliff.
IMHO.
*EDIT*
Just spoke to your boy Chuck over as Pachydermal Pursuits, and he will sell a pair of the rods ends only for $130. The rest of the contraption is not worth an additional $200, IMO, when you already have a Porsche factory racing part. . .
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Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
Last edited by Rasta Monsta on Thu May 07, 2009 2:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 2:11 am Post subject: |
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I looked into this a bit further, and the other challenge I see with a DIY kit is that the pretty much all of the 14x1.5 female rod ends listed on those sites above also have a 14mm bore in the ball end. I think the stock setup on our spindles is a 12mm bore, not sure what the bore is on the conical spacers, but I'm guessing 12mm. If that's the case, we'll probably have to come up with a 1mm sleeve where the bolt passes through the ball. Not insurmountable, of course, but one more variable to add to the mix.
I'm wondering if this is why Elephant mentions that their rod end is "purpose built", because it obviously has a 14x1.5 thread, but the bolt they use is 12mm so that the spindle doesn't have to be machined.
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