924Board.org

mfratt · Joined: 09 Nov 2006 Posts: 10 Location: Boston, MA

I've been looking into a 924/944 for a fun car. When I was down at my Mechanic (who does exclusively Porsche and Mercedes), I was asking him about the 924's. He said the 924S is a great car, but avoid the 924 Turbo. Is this true? Are the 931's more problematic than they're worth?
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2002 Mercedes ML500
Considering: 914/924/S/Turbo/928/S4/944/S/S2/Turbo (I'm Indecisive)

Paul · Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:35 am Post subject:

Welcome to the board!

I would submit that all 25 year old cars with turbos are problematic.
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

Smoothie · Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:32 am Post subject:

Yeah, the mech was probably referring to the turbo which according to legend should only last about 40-50k miles. I seem to have found a simple solution that diminishes the legend though - just use a fully synthetic oil. I've been using only Mobil-1 in mine since a turbo replacement over 10 years ago. It was a KKK factory rebuilt turbo that I put in at that time. Another wear item on the 924T is the wastegate diaphragm, but I seem to have discovered a way to extend its' life also - the last one I put in, I treated one side of it with a silicone-based preservative (the vent side only because cat converters and o2 sensors don't like silicone).
The 924 and 924Turbo are easier to work on - a consideration if you'll be doing your own wrenching. The 924S/944 require a front-of-engine service every 2-3 years that costs about $2k+. The equivalent service on a 924/924T can be done without too much difficulty by the average driveway mechanic for the cost of parts in the $30-$40 range. 924/924T engines are noisey and shake a bit, with the 924T being a bit smoother due to its' lower compression. The 924S/944 have a balance shaft that smoothes their engines. That along with some other amenities make the 924S/944 a more refined car. The 924T is described as more "raw". The 924T's boost level can be easily increased (if one promises oneself not to go tooo far, which can and will blow ones' engine) - done prudently, you quickly have a car that's faster than the 924S/944.
To sum up I'd say that if fun for yourself is what you're after, go with a 924T. To maximize your mechanics fun ($2k every 2-3 years) go with the 924S. If you want more "refined", go with the 924S.
Also, on the 924T (aka- 931), there were 2 series - series 1 (up to 1980) and series 2 from '81-up. Differences were in the ignition systems and the turbo. Later cars also got a redesigned, reinforced exhaust manifold that's alleged to lessen a likelihood of cracking.
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"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."

'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox

Khal · Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: Is the 931 Problematic?

924RACR · Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:00 am Post subject:

Smoothie, that summary is so good, it oughtta be a sticky!
_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

Dave951M · Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 57 Location: NC- USA

I would add one little nugget of advice- get a set of tools and learn how to use them. For what you'd pay your wrench for one front end seal/waterpump/tiiming belt job on a 924S or 944, you can buy a pretty complete set of tools.

As for the 931 being problematic, you're dealing with a car that was limited production to start with, hence parts can get to be a problem. Also, if you're paying a wrench to do the work, you're paying the "P" word surcharge on every part. Case in point, I'm reassembling my 931 and on a lark, I decided to see what Porsche charges for the exhaust studs. How does $80/each grab you? Learn to cross reference parts. Many of the parts on the 924/931 cars are VW/Audi in origin. Case in point, the control arms are Jetta parts, the engine is Audi, the transaxle is Audi, in short, get creative.

Bottom line, if you pay a wrench to do your work, don't whine about the cost of ownership. It might be better to get a Honda from a financial POV. If you learn to wrench, you'll find a satisfying hobby car that can be fairly reliable.
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Dave951M
86 951 Guards Red (Gone but not Forgotten!)
82 931 Guards Red (under construction)

-nick · Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 2699 Location: Cambridge, MA

They're only problematic if you plan on driving them

Seriously, great advice from above. With the help of this board, there are few problems that we couldn't walk you through. The biggest concern I've come across is broken compression rings. A compression/leak down test should be a requirement before purchasing.
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1980 931S
15psi boost, MS-II, EDIS, 951 IC, custom intake, Ford 5.0L throttle body, Forge BOV, WB o2, G31 w/LSD, 964 wheels, 968 rear sway, Bilsteins, 200# Welt. springs. A laptop, and a partridge in a pear tree.
1991 964 C4 Cabriolet

mfratt · Joined: 09 Nov 2006 Posts: 10 Location: Boston, MA

Wow, thanks for all the advice. I know someone who just picked up 3 porsches from an estate (911 Targa, 951, 931), so I'll check out the 931, and make an offer if I like it. All I really want is a fun little car that I can tinker with and take to PCA events.
I ran across this image when googling 924 turbos
http://hem.passagen.se/porsche924/Higgins%20profil.jpg
How much would a body kit like that run? I like how it makes the car look beefier, and it would definatly hold its own next to a 944 (My biggest problem with the 924s vs the 944s is the flatness of the sides - I like the 944's beefy fenders)
_________________
2002 Mercedes ML500
Considering: 914/924/S/Turbo/928/S4/944/S/S2/Turbo (I'm Indecisive)

Paul · Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:07 am Post subject:

931: raw angry vibrating beast that asks for very little, but look for one with 5 lug wheels (Option package M471). Hard to find one in like new condition. Women hate to drive it.

924S: refined, smooth, requires costly maintenance every 3 years. Nice all original ones can still be found. Women love to drive it.
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

924RACR · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:20 am Post subject:

So true, Paul! My wife will drive my 931 if necessary, but only then... but she really misses (already!) the 924S I just sold (was a woman's car before I bought it, and it went to a mother-in-law) - and the latter's an automatic, at that! The lack of power steering is huge to them; I've just gotten used to it...
_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

Rasta Monsta · Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 11733 Location: PacNW

I think the 931 is awesome if you are willing to wrench on it...

I just picked one up cheap and I love it. I had to rebuild the turbo, and do a few other things, but it was well worth it when my car was all over older 911s at the track a few weeks ago. Fast, fun, comfortable, fairly economical, and with the hatchback, fairly practical. Cheap parts, too!

I'm getting another one. . .
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Toofah King Bad

WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3

Rasta Monsta · Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 11733 Location: PacNW

Cedric · Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 2818 Location: Sweden

I think lots of problems on the 931s out there is caused by not so caring previous owners. Cars have been to cheap and young people bought them, drove the shit out of them and sold them on. And of course the cars are 25 years, and most parts that came from the factory are still there. But when all pieces are like they should i cant see that this car would be any more problematic than any other car..
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1980 924 Turbo
www.instagram.com/garagecedric/

ideola · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15550 Location: Spring Lake MI

One more (at least) salient point to add to this thread for anyone considering a 931 purchase: Series 1 931s came with the Snailshell tranny, which is known to have weak synchros resulting in destroyed dogteeth that are nearly impossible to find. Highly unlikely that you'll find a Series 1 with a good tranny unless the PO already addressed it. (ask me how I know...I own two 931s and I have two extra snail shell trannies, one for each). The Series 2 have the audi gearbox, which didn't have the same weakness, are more common, and therefore somewhat less expensive to repair.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

Gregarious · Joined: 13 Sep 2003 Posts: 86 Location: Los Angeles

So is the '81 a series two? Seems to make sense...