924Board.org

[Charlane]

So now I have to rebuild the engine. I was so proud of myself for taking the crossmember loose and jacking up the engine and changing the pan seals. BFD. The car won't travel over 10 MPH and if you look at the seals, these are in pieces. That's what I get for buying seals that weren't high performance from Autozone.

So, does anyone have any tips on rebuilding the engine? Dumping the car is not one of them. I hate it when some b*stard says this to me because I'm female as if I'm going to just give up. Obviously, I need to get better oil pan seals but it's not the first time I've taken an engine out of a car. I just didn't want to do it again this soon.

I know I need to check the rods and the crankshaft and replace the rings. Should I get a kit or take it as it comes? I wouldn't get the kit, anyway, until I've taken the engine out of the car. Would you leave the engine in the car and rebuild it from there? Take it out? I need to figure out the engine stand and hoist situation and find the spot where the car is going to sit for a while. I would not be surprised if this takes a few months but I didn't give up before and will not now. In the meanwhile, I do have another car to drive.

Thanks in advance.
_________________
Electra is Here......

One 1980 924 Turbo
One 1990 KZ1000P (CHPS) Motorcycle
One 1984 244 Turbo Volvo (B21FT) (I installed this engine myself)
One 1977 240D Mercedes Benz
One 1970 Chevy Impala

[Paul]

Sorry for your pain.

What has always worked for me:

Clean motor, drain fluids
Remove motor
Put it in a stand
Remove head, put it on a stand
Do all the checks on the head that are detailed in the factory manual
Remove oil pan
Check bores for ridges, remove if present
Pop out pistons, check condition of pistons, pins, and rods (see manual)
Remove crank, check condition determine if it needs to be reground
Check condition of bores determine if they need to be rebored

Now you can call EBS racing and work together on a parts list.

Then find a machine shop to do whatever you cannot.
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

[Charlane]

Thanks. I can't believe this is happening and I worked so hard to keep that car in good working order. I bought crap seals and this is a hard lesson to learn.
_________________
Electra is Here......

One 1980 924 Turbo
One 1990 KZ1000P (CHPS) Motorcycle
One 1984 244 Turbo Volvo (B21FT) (I installed this engine myself)
One 1977 240D Mercedes Benz
One 1970 Chevy Impala

[Lizard]

I would pull the engine out of the car and put it on a stand first as Paul has suggested.

If money is really tight I would do a leakdown test and find out if your valve are leaking, if they aren't I would leave the head alone just unbolt and put on bench and just redo the bottom end.
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3 928s,

[924RACR]

Yes to all the above, and again to getting the parts from EBS Racing this time around! On the plus side, rebuilding an engine isn't really a complicated matter, and there's certainly nothing unique about these engines. Clean EVERYTHING and take your time, that's the #1 rule. It would be helpful also if you can get someone who has experience rebuilding engines before to take a peek at your internals (bearing journals, etc) to give a sanity check/thumbs-up/thumbs-down on the key parts - looking for excess wear or other damage here.

One correction as I look through the above, actually - I would strongly consider removing the valves, replacing the valve stem seals (they're always shot) and lapping the valves back in. You can rent a head-off valve spring compressor at any half-decent auto shop, and while it's a little fiddly, a magnet and a set of picks will allow you to get it done. The performance and oil consumption gains are worth it. The only "special tool" you'd need, in addition, would be a short length of tube, maybe 1-1.25" dia, to fit in on top of the spring to allow the compressor to work (due to the overhead cam design - won't fit directly on the spring). To lap the valves in, all you need is the hand valve lapper and grinding paste - again, any auto parts store will have them.

You'll want to lap the valves in to make sure they aren't leaking, sealing all the compression in and ensuring you get all the power. You can actually test how well they seal by filling the port with water (valve installed) and seeing if there's any leaking.

Naturally, you will also want to check for any bent or burnt valves, or excessive radial play in the valves (which would indicate worn guides). But, barring any such damage, no concerns reusing the original parts there.
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Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[Chrenan]

Another vote from me to call EBS Racing. Ask for their rebuild kit for a 924, it has everything you need. There is a pictoral journal of my rebuild here:

http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=19839

It shows the general steps. The only thing I didn't do was the head assembly. I sent my complete head out to a maching shop, and it was returned modified, refreshed and ready to bolt on.
_________________
1987 951 - M193 Version for Japan

[924RACR]

Actually, one thing it does lack is the plastic elbow for the cam oiler tube...
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Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[Chrenan]

Didn't know that, mine came with one, but that was a while ago now.
_________________
1987 951 - M193 Version for Japan

[Joes924Racer]

I would break the motor down in the car though.. being
that its tough enough to get the motor out you can
simplify things by taking it apart until just the block is left.
You wont need a motor hoist I just get in there and lift
the block off the bell-housing set it on the ground
and drag it out on top of a piece of plywood.

PS. If you think you cooked the motor be prepared for
possibly having a ruined crank you'll have to have that turned
& use over sized bearings though you don't know till you get
in there & find out who knows maybe just the rod bearings
failed though I doubt it Ive spun a few crank bearings. I don't
mean to check your mechanics skills here though I cant resist
you say the pan gasket was junk are you sure it was installed
correctly once while changing out a pan gasket [motor in car]
the rubber seal that goes over the bearing cap in the back
of the pan wasn't in place and was chewed up by the flywheel
resulting in a rapid loss of oil then there's the little gasket that
goes on the block it has to be in place also... think about it.
if you can do it you can replace rod bearings and pistons
though to check the condition of the crank bearings just remove
a cap .. The big thing about doing this with motor in car is getting
all the bearing shavings out of the block oil passageways..
_________________
1979 porsche 924 Na
1980 porsche Turbo 931GT Replica
Have u ever driven a turbo.

[Charlane]

Wow. Lots of good stuff here. Thanks everyone. If you did an engine what would you say was your cost and this is without touching the head alone? I probably will replace the valve stem seals since I will have it apart and I will take most of it apart before I remove it from the car because I'm only 145 lbs and I'm pretty strong but I'm not the Hulk either.

I figured I would either find, or weld, an A frame and use my come-along to pull the engine out. I know I'm going to have to make an engine stand and put it on wheels. I don't have a garage since I just moved here to my property and my neighbor will let me use his large garage for rebuilding bikes as he is gone 6-8 weeks on the road and has me watching his home. I just need to be able to move that engine either to his shop or to the shop where I usually hang out and work on my motorcycle and at least I have a small trailer for that.

I figure about 4 months and $400/$500 at the least. I'm almost positive that the crank is crapped and I know I have at least one rod gone bad. I will need the freeze plugs and seals plus however many new rods and valve stem seals.

Did the machine shop paint the block for you? Or did you do that yourself? What is a 'badge' also?

Thanks everyone.
_________________
Electra is Here......

One 1980 924 Turbo
One 1990 KZ1000P (CHPS) Motorcycle
One 1984 244 Turbo Volvo (B21FT) (I installed this engine myself)
One 1977 240D Mercedes Benz
One 1970 Chevy Impala

[-nick]

Some sad news - 1st over main and rod bearings are pretty much non-existent. You might be able to find some 2nd over bearings, but even that could be a long shot. Standard size bearings seem to still be readily available. Basically, if a bearing did spin, you might be searching for a replacement crank that measures out to standard sizes. The main bearings typically hold up fine, but a spun rod bearing will very very likely require oversized bearings.

Also - an engine hoist makes life a million times easier! You can rent them from a tool rental company (we have Taylor rental in the east). I paid something like $35/day. Well worth it!

I would say that $400-$500 is probably best-case scenario. If the pistons and/or bores are out of spec then the price tag jumps dramatically. Valve guides aren't expensive, something like $50 for all eight, not including pressing them in/out.

Painting the block is easy after the machine shop has dipped & cleaned it. I don't think it's worth having someone else paint it.

Good luck! I've found the best way to pull the 931 motor is to remove the hood and the radiator&fans and pull it out through the top.
_________________
1980 931S
15psi boost, MS-II, EDIS, 951 IC, custom intake, Ford 5.0L throttle body, Forge BOV, WB o2, G31 w/LSD, 964 wheels, 968 rear sway, Bilsteins, 200# Welt. springs. A laptop, and a partridge in a pear tree.
1991 964 C4 Cabriolet

[Joes924Racer]

I don't know I spent 700.00. .. nick I'm checking my source for over bearings Ill have an answer in 20 minutes.
_________________
1979 porsche 924 Na
1980 porsche Turbo 931GT Replica
Have u ever driven a turbo.

[Joes924Racer]

Wow nick your right my sources said quote 'sorry cant help ya'.
so what are the options you can have material welded to the crank journal cant tyou then have it machined to take regular bearings.
_________________
1979 porsche 924 Na
1980 porsche Turbo 931GT Replica
Have u ever driven a turbo.

[Chrenan]

I agree with the cost quotes from the guys above. Not too expensive unless you start making major changes beyond the stock setup.

I painted the block myself after it came back from the machine shop. Choose a fairly light colour so I could see any oil leaks after everything went back together. Very easy to do yourself, here is how I taped it:





A good hoist and stand will save you a lot of trouble. I take the engine out by removing the hood and rad and loosening the cross member and dropping the cross member down a few inches, helps the oilpan clearance when pulling the engine forward and up.

The badge discussed in the engine build pictoral journal thread just refers to the Porsche emblem sticker on the front of my car that a previous owner stuck on, nothing to do with the engine.

If your crank is screwed, or you need any other used parts (pistons, rods etc.) a good source is www.partsheaven.com, I have used them a number of times with great results.

The bare block is heavy, it is cast iron, but you should be able to carry it yourself (like to get it into your car to take to the machine shop).
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1987 951 - M193 Version for Japan