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Smoothie · Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 7:03 am Post subject: CV flip

I was just a'ponderin' a used cv joint that I had sitting on a shelf here and noticed something... The wear as we all knew occurs mostly toward one side of each of the ball bearing grooves due to the fact that the car travels in the forward direction 99% of the time and that old trick of removing the axle and flipping it, reverses the direction of thrust on the cv and puts the wear on the other side of each groove. -But I'm noticing now that the wear is also isolated toward one side of the cv's. -So, to get still more life out of them - remove the cv's from the axle (good time to dismantle, clean, lube, reassemble the same as before), then flip them so the side that was previously toward the axle is now away from the axle. From playing with that spare one, it's also apparent that the joints will be tighter (less play, more like new) by doing this as opposed to flipping the axle. It also doubles their life again, so instead of -
a) install new, drive, flip axle, drive
you can
b) install new, drive, flip axle, drive, flip cv's, drive, flip axle, drive
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"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."

'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox

Lizard · Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 7:29 am Post subject:

very obsurvant, however when I dismanteled mine the wear was even on both sides
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3 928s,

Smoothie · Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:07 am Post subject:

Wow that's a shame - guess you can't do it.

Here's how mine wear -
first, axle side up -

then, axle side down -

The large outter part wears on the side away from the axle and the small inner part wears on the side nearest to the axle -

_________________
"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."

'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox

numbbers · Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 11:20 am Post subject:

OK, I have 40K Miles on my joints (not my joint, it has a few more miles than that), and I have the axels out now as part of the clutch rebuild. So, when I reinstall them, should I just flip the axels but keep them on the same side, or should I swap them side to side, or both?
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1980 924 Turbo

Smoothie · Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 11:39 am Post subject:

If they're wearing more to one side like in the pictures above, you have the choice to either flip all the cv's (lots more work and messy, but you should end up with tight like-new play in them) -or just rotate the axles. If you're going the axle rotate route, you can either put them back on the same side of the car as before, but flip them so the cv that was outboard before is now inboard -or you could swap axles to the opposite side of the car from where they were before, but don't flip them, so the cv that was attached to the right wheel before is now attached to the left side of the transmission, and the cv that was on the right side of the transmission is now on the left wheel, etc. All of that depends on your having marked the axles when you removed them, so you know what was where...

The cv flip scenario is an idea that I'm pretty sure will work. I haven't tried it yet, but will if I get a sudden burst of energy this weekend as I hope.

_________________
"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."

'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox

Smoothie · Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 11:57 am Post subject:

Hey! I just had another thought - see, all that sugar I had earlier is working.

It might just be the angle that the axles lie at, and their weight pulling them down that causes the cv's to wear more to one side. If that's the case, then all that work flipping the individual cv's would be unnecessary because by just rotating the axles, they'd end up being slanted the opposite way as before and that would have the ball bearings wearing on the opposite side of the cv's.
Yep - now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure that's what happens. It could also 'splain why Lizard's cv's have wear on both sides - the axle shafts were already rotated, angles changed, weights shifted, etc.

This also makes it easier to remember how to rotate them - whether you swap from side to side of the car or leave them on the same side, all you have to remember is that whichever side was up higher before should now be down..
_________________
"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."

'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox

Joes924Racer · Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 2:14 pm Post subject:

Its all so clear ..eh.
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1979 porsche 924 Na
1980 porsche Turbo 931GT Replica
Have u ever driven a turbo.

Smoothie · Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 2:53 pm Post subject:

Yeah - file that one under overthinking, thinking out loud, and taking the long way around to get back to where we started. :~)
_________________
"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."

'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox

Smoothie · Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:42 am Post subject:

Hmmm - just had the left side half shaft off today and found the cv's worn almost right down the middle instead of off to one side. Anyway, I flipped one of the cv's (put it back on the shaft backwards) to see if that causes any problems. So far, no problem.
_________________
"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."

'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox

Paul · Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:46 am Post subject:

Sorry Smoothie, but if the parts are not smooth, pitch em, buy new. IMO the ones in your pictures are paper weights.

Smoothie · Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:02 pm Post subject:

I have 4 cv's on the car and 4 spares, so I wound up doing some mixing and matching of parts and put together 2 cv's with the better parts. So far, so good - with what I did today, I got rid of a rythmic clunk sound that was apparently coming from one of the cv's on the left shaft.
From those pictures, I reused the outter part in the first two pics, but reinstalled where it is, the bearings are riding on an unworn section of it. The inner part in the third pic didn't make the cut.
_________________
"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."

'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox

Paul · Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:10 pm Post subject:

Nothing wrong with saving money on a personal car, but if your doing it for someone else, you're only delaying buying a new CV Joint, and possibly the cost to tow the car to your shop.

Yikes! That's a run on sentence!

Paul · Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:13 pm Post subject:

BTW I have the same clunk from the car in my avatar. Its been sitting out in the cold for a couple of months.

By the looks of it, the CV joints have never been serviced, so guess what I'm going to do tomorrow?

Smoothie · Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:21 pm Post subject:

I only work on my own cars. Whenever I do something, it takes twice as many tools and twice as long to get half as much done, so I could never make a living at it if I tried.

Good luck with that clunk - stock up on paper towels before going in.

Torque spec for the bolts is 31 ft.lbs. (372 in.lbs. if your wrench is marked in inch-pounds like mine)
I still have a clang, but while I had my head back there today, I found a broken spring metal part on the left caliper. It wraps around the caliper and goes out to the front and back to keep tension on other parts apparently to keep them from clanging. I wonder if it's available by itself, or as part of a hardware kit, or available at all...
_________________
"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."

'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox

Paul · Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:24 am Post subject:

Spent most of the day outside (sunny, 60, and no wind...PERFECT!) and managed to service all 4 cv joints today. Other than a few marbles bouncing around the shop, it was fun.

The clunk is gone.