924Board.org

[louism99]

just acquired a 88 924s, had intermitant starting problems, (starter won't crank over) jump started fine. checked battery, some cells were low, topped them off. charged battery and have been driving her with no problems (considering it has been garaged for awhile). problem came back the other morning, but let her sit for a minute or two, and she started up just fine. Checked cables on starter...OK, haven't replaced the battery yet, seems to start fine almost all the time now.
Question: are the solenoids known to have issues?

[gohim]

Solenoids on Bosch starters suffer from bad electrical connections as they age, regardless of the engine that they are on. Pulling the starter, cleaning and lubricating often help.

A more important maintenance problem is the condition of the components on the front of the engine. To stay in running condition (and avoid bent valves), the 924S/944 engine requires a "front of engine" service every 3 years or 30K miles. Incase you were not aware of it, the 2.5L engine is an "interference engine", meaning that the valves and the pistons occupie the same space at different times. The heath of the timing belt is critical to keeping the pistons and valves from meeting. The "front of engine" service is meant to replace all of the components on the front of the engine the failure of which will cause damage or failure of the timing belt and/or the balance shaft belt (causing the failure of the timing belt).

The parts that must be replaced are the timing and balance shaft belts, front of engine oil seals, the ball bearing equipped rollers and pulleys, and the waterpump. The cost of this necessary service is between $1500-$2500, depending on where you get the parts and who does the labor. This is not a service that can be done by a gas station, or general auto mechanic. Some expensive tools, only used on Porsche 928 and 944 type engines are required.

If your car did not come with a full set of recent service records, your car must have this service done immediately. To delay the service could allow failure of the belts due to age and/or wear. MANY 924S and 944 cars are sold when this expensive service is due, because the selling owners are aware of the fact that the service is due, and are unable to afford the cost of the service, or unwilling to spend the amount necessary to have the service done. Those people dump their cars on unsuspecting Buyers, who may not know of the true cost of the necessary and probably overdue service, which would surely affect the selling price of the car, if the prospective buyer/s knew the cost of the service, and that it was/is due.

So, if you do not have written proof of the age/miles on the front of engine service on your newly acquired car, you need to IMMEDIATELY stop driving it, until you can locate a competent, experienced mechanic for Porsche 944 and 924S cars with the proper tools, knowledge, and experience to complete this work on your car.

The special tools that you would need to do the work yourself will cost you about $600-$700. You could save this much on a single "front of engine" service that you do yourself. There are also alternative tools of lesser cost, if you are willing to take your chances (risk your engine on tools that should work in a similar fashion to the "official Porsche tools").

[Stu2j]

If you had a muffler problem, gohim would probably tell you that you needed front engine service

Here are the facts (944 applies to the 924S):

On 944s, the timing belt and balance shaft belt should be changed at 45,000 miles. For 968s, they should be changed at 60,000 miles. For both the 944 and 968, the belt condition and tension should be checked every 15000 miles. The 15,000 mile inspection interval assumes that the car has bee driven on a regular basis. If your timing belt is two years old and you have not reached the 15000 mile inspection interval, the timing belt tension and condition should be checked then and once per year after that.

Note that the replacement period is 45,000 miles and there is no 3 year major front engine service period.

I agree that if you don't know when the service was performed, you should have the belt re-tensioned and inspected (you may or may not need a complete front engine servce). However, there is certainly no need to "immediately stop driving".

Good luck with the car.
_________________
-Stu
924 owner since 1988
924S owner since 2002
Click here to view them:

[gohim]

Seems kinds strange that someone who can't figure out where the noise in his cheap, off-brand exhaust system is coming, would be giving advice to others.

Aren't you the one who has been bragging about his cheap, lifetime warranty Midas, or some other chain store muffler? Why haven't you taken your car back to them, instead of polluting the board?

Only a fool would run the belts on a 924S or 944 45K miles. Enlightened owners and experienced mechanics recommend and stick to the 10K inspection, and 3 year, or 30K mile replacement schedule. As has been documented on this Board and on other message boards, there have been numerous belt failures below 45K miles, and over 3 years age on the belts.

Are you willing to pay for this new guy's cylinder head repair work, and/or replacement engine block if your advice turns out to be wrong when he keeps driving the car without getting the belts checked?

Oops, already know the answer to that question. You'll simply crawl back into your hole, while mumbling, "I am not responsible for what runs out of my......... computer..."

[Stu2j]

[Paul]

You pay your money, you take your chances.

3 years, 30,000 miles intervals will result in less failures than 45,000.

I have looked at 3 original owner 924S/944 cars that each went about 8 years and 60,000 miles before the original belt failed. In all 3 cases once the warranty expired, they never had the belts looked at again.

Another original owner 87 924S made it to 58,000 miles (but the odometer was broke so who knows) and 2003 before the original belt broke (At least the owner said it was never replaced and I could not find anything in his inch high pile of receipts). He claimed the odometer had recently stopped.
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

[gohim]

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:18 am Post subject: 82 924 odd rattle...

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Hi Everyone...

Ok... there is a bad rattle from under the car when driving (making it tough to diagnose). Recently, I noticed that when sitting still if I shake the shift lever I can hear the rattle from under the car.

Any ideas?
_________________
-Stu
924 owner since 1988
924S owner since 2002
Click here to view them:

[louism99]

thanks for the info on Bosch sol. wish it was as simple as a bendix gear on an old harley,but oh well. it think it could be what you said, or just a bad ground SOMEWHERE or the battery (its three years old on a 84 mo. battery) but since it has been garaged alot, the battery is most likey on its way out. need to check the cells with a hydrometer.

I have taken what you all have said about the front end servicing seriously,it was done about 3K mi ago (4/2002) but i wish the service manager would learn how to read an odometer...in 12/2001 4 tires were put on at 125216 mi...but the manager wrote 20449 on the service record for the timing belt, balancing shaft & belt and main fuel line in 4/2002...go figure.

i have it now and the milage is 128500. so now i wonder about the quality of the repair. it runs great, have a shimmey in the steering whel around 59-65 MPH but smooths out above that, might try rotating the wheels for that ... any ideas? (goodyear NCT3 19565VR15)

i see it is not easy to find parts for, like expansion coolant line hose and other hoses, lift supports, serpintine belt etc... localy (Riverside, CA) but found a few sites on the internet thst have them and a few sites to use 944 parts as replacements

[Stu2j]

[gohim]

louism99,

We're neighbors!

I'm in Rialto. Never fear, you have a great shop down there in Riverside where they will be happy to special order whatever you need. They used to have more 924S/944 mechanical parts in stock but they eliminated alot of stuff. Zuffen and I fought over some of the stuff when they clearanced on eBay.

The name of the shop is Car Craft, (925-781-4480), and their address is 1006 E. La Cadena Dr, Riverside. They are on La Cadena where it parallels the 215 freeway just North of the Columbia offramp/overpass. they are a Bosch Authorized Dealer and Repair Center. They do tuneups to major overhauls, and sell parts. They do more VWs than Porsches, but you will always see both parked there in for service. I have had distributors serviced there and used the machine shop services , and had good experiences on both.

I have been buying alot of my parts of the Internet from a shop called "stopshopanddrive.com" this past year and a half. Shipping is free when the sales amount is over $50, and I usually get the stuff the next day. They ship from warehouses all over the U.S. and much of teh VW and Porsche stuff that I have ordered has come from either Bakersfield or the South Bay (Gardena?). Probably why the shipping is so fast.

The 86 944 has the same engine as the 87 924S, BUT, some of the water hoses, ac hoses and other parts under the hood that connect the engine are not the same as those used on the 944. For example: the parts books show different ac condensors, radiators for the 924S vs the 944. So the ac hoses, and some of the coolant hoses are different. I can't tell you what the differences are, or whether you can sucessfully substitute the 944 parts without changing other parts. So, you need to be careful when you are considering a change to a 944 part from a 924S part.

[louism99]

hi gohim, yea rialto ...know where that is.

i'll give that shop a try...thanks for the info, want to keep this one for a while, great driver, good gas milage, and what a fun car to drive.

i see what age does to the rubber, the alt/ac belt shows sign of age as well as the fuel return line, need to get that one fixed fast (maybe this weekend) before someting happens. what, yes i carry a fire ext. in all my cars

[Stu2j]

[gohim]

Yeah, the fuel return line off the fuel rail has been the cause of numerous 924S and 944 engine fires. There was a recall from Porsche to replace it. Occasionally the fuel pressure regulator and the fuel dampener have failed as well, so it would pay to visually check them for leaks once in a while when the engine is running and they are under pressure.

On the ruined engine in my 87 924S, and both of my 87 parts donor engines, the same hoses were leaking. That's three out of three and a good reason to keep an eye on that hose.

If yours in leaking, you might try checking with the Porsche Dealer in Riverside (the Porsche Dealer is the Mercedes Dealer at the Riverside Auto Mall) down there to see if it has already been replaced under the Recall. Maybe you can get the part for free.

[louism99]

yes, the local Porsche dealer can order it for $153.89 (944 356 945 03) ouch!

I asked the parts guy if there had been an recalls on 88 924s and told him I sent in the change of owner form that was in the back of the orginal service book to Indiana, he said they would get in touch with me and to wait.

i did the same with a 75 MB 450SL at the dealership acroos the street, got a new wishbone front end, but still cost me over a grand for extras. gotta love those Germans...they honor their workmanship. Like to see Ford or Chevy do that.

i got some 5/16 fuel injection line and clamps from Pep Boys to put in this weekend, but maybe i'll just seal it with heat shrink tubing until i hear from Porsche on a recall, before cutting the steel tubing return to the tank

[Charlane]

I have the same problem but I am going to start with what I know. I went over all electrical connections with die electric grease to include all of the relays, spade connectors on lighting and fuel sending, plugs, coil, rotor and distributor cap and the fuses, too. I get a smashing response from my car now in that once it starts it purrs literally and really starting was quite easy. The one place that I didn't get to was the starter and when I was under the car changing out the alternator belt I saw what looked like a shield on the passenger side behind the alternator. I looked all over my manual and that was the one thing that I couldn't determine was where the starter was exactly. Once I get to the starter I can clean the connections and reapply my conductive grease.

Anyone? Thanks in advance.

Charlane
_________________
Electra is Here......

One 1980 924 Turbo
One 1990 KZ1000P (CHPS) Motorcycle
One 1984 244 Turbo Volvo (B21FT) (I installed this engine myself)
One 1977 240D Mercedes Benz
One 1970 Chevy Impala