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Mannghi · Joined: 11 Nov 2002 Posts: 99 Location: Allentown, PA

After a very thorough, systematic sequence of testing the ignition system, the fuel system and aligning the timing marks on the distributor, cam and flywheel to #1TDC, my '77 just will not start. It will crank and crank until the battery goes flat, It occasionally would send air back through the intake boot, like a cough. (Kind of sad if you anthropomorphise it. )
The most encouraging sounds of starting happened when I moved the spark plug wires around on the distributor cap, keeping the same firing order but thinking that maybe cylinder #1 was closest to the flywheel. (not the case)
That would be 4-2-1-3, I suppose, 180º( on the dist.) out of order.
That got me a few sputters and a backfire but no actual running, battery was too low I suspect.
I'm out of ideas, and according to Haynes "the vehicle now must run...".
I have a spare head, but i really only want to change it out as a last resort. I'm sure its a timing problem, but i can't wrap my brain around it.
Any thoughts?

jpab924 · Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:44 pm Post subject:

Whats the history behind the car? Has it been sitting, just had work done to it?

Viking · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 107 Location: Oslo, Norway

Are you sure that the engine is spinning the right way? (There are two different starters, one for the turbo and one for the na, and they spin in opposite directions, but both will fit an na)

Are you sure it's at TDC when the flywheel says so? (Mine is about 40 degrees off on the flywheel. Try removing the sparkplug from cylinder 1, and feel with a wire down there to check that it's actually at TDC. There is also a timing mark on the front of the engine on the wheel connected to the crank that drives the belt)

Mannghi · Joined: 11 Nov 2002 Posts: 99 Location: Allentown, PA

Ya know, I did replace the starter once upon a time, but I'm sure it's run (badly) since then.
The car has been sitting for a long time, and was always hard to start but it usually came around after a couple of tries and giving it some throttle while starting it.
This all started about 3 months ago, it was very hard to start, did get it started revved it for less than a minute and noticed the header at #4 cylinder was glowing, red hot. Figured the timing was very wrong. Set everything up to TDC, new rotor, new cap, tested the ignition system for any faulty components and havent' been able to run it since.
Neat huh?

924RACR · Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:19 am Post subject:

Gotta be a timing issue. Start from scratch... cylinders are always #1 closest to the front of the motor. Timing order should be labeled on the cam cover. 1-3-4-2 comes to mind. #1 cyl should be the one on the cap closest to the rearmost intake bolt, proceed from there. The rotor should likewise be pointing at that bolt when installed properly, with crank and cam at #1 TDC. You may need to try cranking with the distributor body at a few different angles before it works.
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Mannghi · Joined: 11 Nov 2002 Posts: 99 Location: Allentown, PA

That's interesting about the distributor pointing to the rearmost intake bolt. I think the mark for #1 on the dist. is pointing more towards the driver's seat. (LHD) I can't visualize the bolts on the intake at the moment though.
The wrong starter is an interesting thought, something to check just to be sure.
Thanks for your input!

Smoothie · Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:45 am Post subject:

Correct, #1 should be toward the drivers' seat (LHD). Firing order's 1-3-4-2 and the rotor spins clockwise as viewed from above, so #3 is toward the front-left of the car, #4 toward front-right, #2 toward rear-right (passengers' seat). The clips on the dist cap should line-up straight front-to-back of the car. That's how everything's put together from the factory and just to keep things simple, it should be kept that way.
With the flywheels' TDC mark lined-up in the window, the correct mark (between 2 teeth) on back of the cam wheel should line up with the pointer on the valve cover - http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/smoothies931pics/detail?.dir=bdb3&.dnm=cea3.jpg&.src=ph
-And at the same time, to verify that the flywheel's on right, the mark on the front crank pulley and pointer on the oil pump should line-up - http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/smoothies931pics/detail?.dir=bdb3&.dnm=ff6b.jpg&.src=ph

To check the starter - you should see the cam wheel turning counterclockwise as viewed from the drivers' seat (clockwise as viewed from the front of the engine).

Given that it sat for a while, is it possible you have bad fuel and/or water in the fuel?
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"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."

'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox

emoore924 · Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 2822

Can you check a few other things for diag purposes, then report back...

Check compression, and also leakdown if you can. You want to be sure the internals are right.

Be sure you timed the cam using the mark on the back of the cam gear, not the one on the front.

Be sure the timing is set to spec.

Check that fuel flow from the injectors is in spec

Be sure the exhaust is clear -- no blocked cat or something

Have you tried another set of injectors?

Is your battery fully charged or have you tried to start the car with a booster?

It is bugging me as to why that #4 pipe was glowing. That's not right. That could be a really lean conidition or a blockage. Hmmmm....