924Board.org

[924sdriver]

Okay...I'm officially afraid. I just bought what I thought would be a fun, affordable, low miles, 1987 924S. After reading this some of these posts however....DID I MAKE A MISTAKE?

Like I said the car is a 1987 with 30K miles, and I thought the price was right ($3500). I was not worried about the miles...but the time (17 years). I know these cars are notorious for timing belts, oil seals, water pumps, etc... I am seeing posts here that this kind of preventive maintenace is thousands of dollars OUCH. Does it really cost that much to have a timing belt replaced? Should I have this done as soon as I get the car? What else should I really have done immediately?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice you can give.

Thanks!

[Neil924]

Did any service records come with the car? Do you know for sure when the last major sevice was done? If no, then I would switch out the belts very soon. Spend some money to know the car is sound and then drive it with a good feeling. If not, then you will always be wondering and if it does go, then you will be in for a big chunk of change. I hope we can get you over this hard part, so you cxan enjoy the car. A note: The car may say, 30,000, but does the odometer work? They can have plastic gears that will break if you push the odometer button while the car is moving. I think the S cars as well have the odometers "roll over" at 100,000K. Which means the car could have 130,000 miles.

[924sdriver]

Thanks Neil! I did not get the car delivered yet (although it is paid for). Delivery should be later this week. I know...I'm kind'a rollin' the dice here, but I did speak at length with the owner and here is what I know.

- It is an original owner car (carfax confirmed)
- Older professional (Doctor) woman owned.
- Selling due to lack of use...just wanted the car to have a good home.
- People seem very honest, and forth coming with information. I do believe it is truely a 30,000 mile car.
- The car was serviced regularly at a dealership, however, not sure they have retained any records.

I do hear what you're saying about the "peace of mind" factor, and in fact it is my plan to have the front engine service (timing belt) done, just not at a Porsche dealership, as it is a severe spanking from those guys. I did get the dealership to quote on the work and they came back at a new timing belt and water pump at $1100. I'm sure I can get it done cheaper than that. I will not attempt this job myself, as I don't have the proper tools required, and lets face it....this is a rather important component and needs to be done properly.

Do you have any ideas what reasonable price would be for this work?

Thanks again for all / any help

[gohim]

If the car really only has 30K miles on it, then the engine has plenty of life in it (as long as you have the fornt of engine service performed religiously on time within mileage). When properly care for, these engines will go 200K to 300K without rebuilding.

A good indicator of whether the odometer is working properly (and the 30K miles is true mileage) is a quick look at the "trip" odometer. The odometer only has 6 digits, so if the car has over 100K miles on it, the odometer will rollover, and restart at 0 miles. If the "trip odomemter reads 000 miles, then the odds are that the odometer is broken, and the car has over 30K miles on it that have not been registered.

The 87 model year cars have shown a tendency for blow the head gasket sometime between 80K and 100K miles. If the engine in your only has 30K miles, then you have some time before you need to worry about this problem. Check the Coolant Reserve Tank periodically for a brom oil scum, or loos of coolant (both indicators of a blown head gasket).

All 944/924S engines have oil coolers that are cooled by the engine coolant. The seals have a tendency to fail, which allows the engine coolant to mix with the engine oil, resulting in lubricating oil contamination, and lubrication failure, resulting in bearing damage and engine failure. Oil cooler seal failure is accellerated by the use of the improper anti-freeze being added to the cooling system. The proper anti-freeze is made by GAF and sold by VW and Saab Dealers. It is considerably more expensive than the stuff you by from the local auto parts store ($15-$20 a gallon vs $5-$8 for the cheap stuff). You should check the engine oil for any signs of oil cooler failure (brown scum on the oil level dipstick, coolant smell in the engine oil, or rising engine oil level over time). Conside having the oil cooler seals replaced while this initial "front of engine service is performed to help prevent an oil cooler seal failure. Again, a special tool only used on the 944/924 engine is needed. The oil cooler housing must be realigned using a tool to align the passages that the pressure relief valve rides in. If not used, the oil pressure relief valve could get jammed in it's bore, resulting in ZERO oil pressure, or reduced oil pressure, and engine bearing failure.

The "front of engine service" is critical to the life of the engine. This should include the replacement of the timing and balance shaft belts, the front of engine oil seals, and the rollers and pulleys that have ball bearings. This service should be performed every 30K miles or 3 years (whichever occurs first).

Special tools and 944/924S engine experience is required to perform the service properly. The most important is the Porsche P9201 belt tension tool. No matter who, and where the shop you choose is, ask them if they have the tool (and it's calibrator), have them show you the tool (it has a large dial on one side with numbers, and ask the mechanic to show you how it works. If they don't own the tool. or can't explain now it works, then find another shop and mechanic.

Parts from an authorized Porsche Dealer are warranted for two full years, and Porsche will pick up the repair cost (parts and labor) if the supplied parts any fail, and/or result in the fail of the belts (if the parts are genuine Porsche parts).

This is provided that the parts were porper installed, and the 2K belt retension and inspection were performed.

If you do not get written documentation that confirms that the time and mileage on the "front of engine" service is safely within the time and mileage specs, I strongly suggest that you do not start the engine, or drive the car until the the work has been performed by a competent experienced 944/924S mechanic.

Non-factory aftermaket parts, regardless of where they come from, seldom include any warranty, and the suppliers will not take responsibility if parts failure results in engine damage.

A couple of people on this message board have posted that they have gotten quotes from mechanics in the $650-$800 range for parts and labor for the "front of engine" service". I questioned the amounts, since a complete set of the required parts costs $600-$1000 (depending on the brand of the parts and where you buy them from). Rebuilt or generic water pumps are slightly cheaper than a Genuine new Porsche water pump. However, as I described before, the quality of the rebuilt pumps and new pumps (primarily made by a company named LASCO) is vastly inferior, and the warranty (if any) does not include laob or parts to repair a damaged engine.

A more reasonable estimate of costs woul be in the $1500-$2500 range for parts and labor. It is not cost effective to have just the belts replaced, because the belts must be removed to replace the other parts (water pump, oil seals, rollers, or pulleys) if they fail, the failure of any of the afore noted parts will cause belt failure, and result in engine damage. The additional cost of labor is fairly low, since the addition work is simply removing the old parts, and installing the new (no difficult adjustments).

[924sdriver]

WOW! Thanks for all the great info. I am in the process right now of lining up a certified mechanic to do the front engine service. I got a quote from the local Porsche dealership to do the water pump and timing belt for $1100...but I think I can do better and want to get all seals / belts / rollers replaced. Thanks Again!

[Neil924]

Anything else we can help you with today?

[924sdriver]

Actually......

What kind of deal do you think I got? I truely do believe the car only has 30K on it. The exterior is in perfect condition, (No rust, dings, scratches) and the interior has the usual U.V. damage. I'm actually looking forward to restoring the interior, and making it like new again. I really am excited to own such a great sports car.

So was $3500 too much to pay considering I have to have the front engine service done?

[D Hook]

If you've found a dealer that will provide the warranty Gohim talks about and uses genuine Porsche parts and can do this for $1100, you might want to think long and hard. Unless this other mechanic is very familiar with the engine you could be taking a pretty big chance, unless he's willing to provide the same written warranty. If the timing belt breaks, you're looking at some serious money to rebuild the head, providing that's all that gets damaged. Sure, you can probably do better than $1100 but from what I've read on this and other boards, that's a pretty good price from a dealer, especially with the warranty.

Heck, put it on your credit card, make the minimum payments and, if you're lucky, you might have it paid for before the 3 year mark rolls around and you get to do it all over again.

[Latka]

I paid $4500 for an 87 924S with 39K miles. Posted pictures of it here also. There is damage to the passenger side door handle area from what looks like a breakin attempt, and a few dings and ents here and there. I still think I got a deal, so you got a steal!

[nguyenaq]

just curious, what makes GAF the proper antifreeze?

i just bought zerex antifreeze which is phosphate and silicate free (hope it doesnt corode my oil coolant seals), but if GAF is more proper than zerex, then i will return the zerex.
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1988 924S

[924sdriver]

Yeah...I think I did get a smokin' good deal. I've been calling around over the last couple of days, and I'm finding that my choices of mechanics is limited. However I have got a few quotes ranging from $800 to $1300. So...I guess not too bad. I take delivery of the car today...and it will be in the shop by the weekend. I will post some pics.

ALSO, does anyone have any ideas about the infamous dash crack. I know this car has "THE CRACK", and what are the best options for a fix.

Again thanks to everyone for all the great information....at this rate...I'll be a Porsche drivin' fool in no time.

[924sdriver]

Okay....Now let's trow another variable into the mix. I just talked with the previous owner, and he found an invoice for a new timing belt and water pump...but....NO DATE. He assures me it was no longer than 3 yrs. ago, and less than 500 miles. What do I do? I know a visual inspection is not adaquate.....

[D Hook]

Most recommend to change it every 3 years or 30K, which ever comes first. If you're near the 3 year, I'd change it. Much more fun to drive worry free for three years.

[Lizard]

when in doubt CHANGE it, dont risk anything
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3 928s,

[The Fife]