924Board.org

[The Fife]

I'm picking up an '87 924S from a friend of mine on Friday and I have a few questions that I hope won't stir things up too much. I'm getting it for $500 as a project car so of course there's something wrong with it. My friend blew the timing belt about a year and a half ago and he set out to fix it. He sent the head and valves out for repair, and got a new water pump. He decided a timing belt tool wasn't worth it, so after everything was lined up and put back together he started it up and the belt blew within seconds. This was a little over a year ago and he hasn't done anything since then. The rest of the car is in great shape and he has some manuals that come along with it.

So, any recommendations on how to take care of getting the car back on the road? I've been reading up for awhile so I have an idea about what I may be looking at (I'm sure it ate some valves) and of course I'm fixing it myself. My plan is to get the head off and fix what I find there. I'll need a new head gasket and from what I read this seems like a good time to change out a lot of vacuum lines that are hard to get to. I'll find out more details about the water pump later this week (all I know is that it's new - don't know the brand or anything else), and also ask about the rollers. I'll need a new belt and belt tool (most likely optibelt). Any other work I should plan on doing while I'm in there?

Any recommendations on where to get the parts I'll need? Either through a dealer or online somewhere? Any other unusual tools needed other than the belt tensioner? The fact that the belt blew so quickly after he fixed it makes me nervous, but I have a pretty strong feeling that has a lot to do with the fact that he just put the new belt on without using any tensioning tools.

[Sleykin]

You will need a pin wrench to hold the balance shaft sprockets and a thin wrench to hold the excentric adjustment on the tensioner. I made one out of 10 ga steel and used an adjustable pin wrench from harbor freight.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/944M/POR_944M_engine_pg5.htm#item22
That should link you to the page with info from Pelican. There are several places selling the kit with the rollers seals and belts. I got mine from Auto Atlanta but it took awhile to get the right parts and ended up having to buy the right roller from a local import parts house. Just wish I had bought everything from the local guys.
You will also need a long allen wrench for the bolts inside the cam housing. When you pull the housing slide a piece of cardboard under it to hold the lifters in. The only thing holding them in is the stiction of the oil.
As long as you have it apart you will want to consider replacing the vacuum lines under the intake as they are really tough to get to with it on. Also a great time to check/clean the ground connections on the back of the block for the same reason. (they are a chronic problem)
Don't forget to take some pictures
Good luck
_________________
Glenn Neff
Medford, OR
87' 924S

[gohim]

If I were you, I would start by getting the car home, then take a look at the Service Manuals and get familar with the engine before taking it apart to fix it.

You are going to need a flywheel lock, balance shaft pin wrench, a thin wrench, and a belt tensioning gauge.

The flywheel lock is unique to the 944 (it will cost you $25-$45). I bought a nice aftermarket balance shaft tool made out of aircraft aluminum (with replaceable pins) from a Seller on eBay for about $30 including shipping. You can buy a long handled thin wrench from a bicycle shop for less than $15. I am going with the Porsche P9201 tool myself. I have been watching eBay, trying to get one for a reasonable price. you will also need the calibration bar for the P9201 tool, if you choose to go with the "real" thing.

If one of the belts broke imediately after the engine was installed, I would guess that there was something wrong with the way that the belts were installed, or with the waterpump, or maybe whatever caused the original belts to break was not corrected (defective belt roller or pulley that was not replaced?), or maybe a bent valve was not replaced, and it siezed in a valve guide, or the timing belt could have skipped a couple of teeth (and bent the valves) if it was too loose. You will only know after you get the engine apart for inspection.

The important part is to get physical control of the car, and get it apart for inspection, BEFORE buying parts. You may find that a valve head was separated from the stem, and it jammed against the piston and the cylinder wall, cracking the cylinder itself, and totaling the engine block. I have read about this happening in freak accidents in at least two cases on RennList and on this message board.

Personally, I buy many of my "front of engine" service from authorized Porsche Dealers who sell prices at a steep discount from PCNA Suggested List Price, because of the superior 2-Year Unlimited Mileage Warranty that is included with genuine Porsche parts. Before buying parts from an aftermarket supplier, I would get a copy of Excellence Magazine, and contact a few of the authorized Porsche Dealers for a quote. You may be surprised that some prices are actually lower than those of the aftermarket guys, and many very close (some higher and some lower). Aftermarket suppliers (if they give you any warranty on the parts at all) usually give you between 30-90 days, with not recourse if the failed parts caused damage to other parts (like bent valves and damaged valve guides, if the belts break prematurely).

I would not use a rebuilt water pump from any source (except maybe a Porsche branded rebuilt water pump). I have only seen water pumps made by Porsche, and an aftermarket company by the name of LASCO. The LASCO water pump is a new casting, but the casting, machining, and bearings are significantly inferior to the original Porsche part. The LASCO water pump is sold by many sources, and does not include a gasket.

Good aftermarket places to buy parts include: ZIMS, EBS, and Performance Products. Performance Products actually buys many genuine parts directly from PCNA (one of a few independent resellers allowed to by Porsche). I have purchased new parts from Vertex before, and was happy with the prices, but the delivery is often slow. Someone I knew lived in FL, and he stopped by Vertex once to see what their operation was like. He reported back that Vertex was being run out of a house, with a few salvage cars parked in the driveway, and their rebuild program consisted mostly of spray paint, and cans of fresh grease. Nothing wrong with buying new parts from them if you aren't in a hurry, but don;t buy any rebuilt parts from them. Automobile Atlanta is a rip-off, if you can't pick up the parts inperson. They shipping charges are outrageous, and you are guarenteed that they will screw up the order. Used parts are often junk, and it is alomst impossible to get them to exchenge or refund your money (I had to dispute the charges with my credit card company to even get a partial refund). People that stop in at AA, inspect the parts before paying for them report somewhat better luck buying from them.

Take the time and spend the money to do the job right, and you will have a car you will enjoy owning/driving. Cheap out on the repairs, and pay the price forever.

Good Luck...

[The Fife]

Thanks for the advice! About getting the car down here - I had planned on renting a pickup and trailer from u-haul. The trailer is the kind that just has two wheels off the ground. I had planned on getting the front two on the trailer and towing it in neutral. The tires look fine, I'm not worried about one of those blowing out on me but I'm still taking it slow on the way over here. If this is a terrible idea that someone here has tried and caused damage by doing, please someone say something fast because I had planned on calling up a couple of places here to reserve the truck and trailer tomorrow.

[gohim]

A tow dolly should work fine with the 924S, as long as it has not been lowered.

The only disadvantage to a tow dolly when compared to a trailer is the fact that you cannnot back up. You need to make sure of where you are driving, since the only way to turn a dolly around is to unload it, and drag it around. Never drive in, where you don't know that there is another place to drive out or circle. A car trailer only costs $10 more from U-Haul.

Make sure that the tires are all in good condition, and FULLY inflated. this will make rolling it up onto the dolly easier, and will make for a more secure connection to the tow dolly (the front tires are loaded onto the dolly and secure the car to the dolly with straps that fit over the front tires. Fully inflated front tires allow you to tighten the straps better without slipping).

[The Fife]

After calling around some I was able to come up with the following:

truck + car hauler (flatbed) + mileage + tax ? $130
I have to move it myself. Tires don't worry me since they're only a year and a half old and haven't had many miles put on them, but it'd be a real challenge getting it onto the trailer and into my garage.

towing company + flatbed = $125
No tax paid on towing, and it's the quote after telling them how many miles. No shoving required and car gets to ride on a flatbed. It's amazing how friendly towing companies are when you're calling them up to move something!

So it looks like tomorrow will be an easier day than I thought. I'm already looking forward to going through the manuals it comes with and getting to work on that head!

[Paul]

If the car looks driveable, join AAA, then call for a tow.

[gohim]

I ran into the same problem last month when I helped a friend buy a 89 VW Jetta. I agreed to help my friend with the repairs, so we needed the car moved to my house. The car had a light engine compartment fire (primarily wiring harness), and we needed a 50 mile tow.

The tow would have cost $150 by flatbed truck.

UHaul wanted $20 a day, and $.79 a mile ($80, plus insurance and tax), and the tow dolly was anopther $40.

We ended up using my friend's Rodeo (it towed just fine), and rented only the dolly.

Take your time on the repairs after you get the car home. You will be happier with the job if you spend the money to buy the better parts (no mikey mouse generic parts), and get an experienced 944/924S mechanic or machine shop for the parts of the job that you don't want to, or are not qualifed to do.