924Board.org

[Rob O]

I have a stock 81 NA with rear drums and no rear swaybar, 23mm front swaybar (from Vince Ponze - great price and it looked brand new), Koni Sport rear shocks and 15" wheels. The car is mostly for street driving but will see a few AutoX events and if I am lucky a Drivers Ed. at Limerock.
I am debating a few different upgrades right now and wonder which is the best bang for the buck:

New Permatune with Bosch Blue coil @$300 from Tweeks
Koni front inserts @ $350 from Paragon
Add 14mm rear sway bar @$150 from Parts Heaven

Opinions appreciated.

Rob
_________________
'81 Weissach Ed. (gettin' better)

[924RACR]

Rear swaybar, no questions asked. But not Partsheaven; get the 19mm rear Cup Car adjustable bar from Paragon; same price, stiffer, and adjustable! Much faster, you'll get something out of that 23mm bar. Those are the bars I'm using on my racecar.

Also consider, when you install the front bar, installing new front droplinks, unless the ones Vince sent are in excellent shape; under heavy (track) use, they can break if corroded, resulting in really evil handling.

If you were to put in front Koni inserts with the front bar, your car would push like a pig and not be much fun to drive.

The Permatune is nice, I have it also for my racecar, but least bang for the buck here, no question.
_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[gohim]

Before you conside adding a rear bar when your car didn't come with one, you need to crawl under the rear end to see if your torsion bar carrier has the brackets welded on to carry the rear bar.

Many/most cars that did not come with the rear bar do not have the mounts for a rear bar. You would have to either replace the torsion bar carrier, or find someone who can remove the mounts from another rear carrier and weld them onto your existing torsion bar carrier, or buy the Weltmeister adapter kit ($175-$200 extra) and install it on your existing rear torsion bar carrier to use a rear sway bar.

Installing front Koni Inserts is a waste, unless you do Koni rear shocks at the same time. Otherwise the car will be seriously unbalanced handling wise. Go for a set of Koni "Yellow" Sport Shocks, the standard Koni "Red" shocks are too soft (even when street driving).

The Permatune would be a poor choice on a 81 924. The electronic ignition system on the 81 is much more advanced than that of the earlier cars. You already have breakerless electronic ignition, and you would lose the electronic idle stabilization that is standard equipment on the 81 and later cars.

The best bang for the buck that you can do is four wheel disc brake conversion. Back when the 924 five bolt cars were newer, and the 944 were new, the conversion would cost you $1500-$2000 with wheels. But now you can do it for less than $750-1000 with wheels (or less if you can find a good parts car).

There is nothing like the confidence you get from speeding into a turn, knowing that your brake pedal will be high, you didn't have to adjust the rear brake drums to keep them from sinking every month, and that you won't have to pump the brake pedal to slow or stop.

[Vince Ponz]

I have a Weltmeister adj rear 22mm sway. My car did not come with a sway bar therefore the Welt with the mount kit.

Look for a 18mm 944 rear sway if you have the mounts. Most sways cost used for about 75 bucks. Go to hershey and see if you can find one. I don't have one. It is so easy to put the rear on that if you have a friend with a 944 remove his and put it on yours to see if you like it.
_________________
"Never let them see you sweat"
77.5 924 modified track car
79 931 Euro stock
88 924S SE
87 911 Targa stock

[-nick]

Rob-
I've got an extra 14mm bar and I'll give you a much better deal than $150!! I've even got the Welt adapter kit and all the other mounting parts. Drop me an email.

PS- I agree- the rear sway is where you need to start. Make sure you've got some good rubber on the tires too- no all seasons.

-nick

[Rob O]

Thank you for the comments. Sounds like a rear swaybar is the way to go for the money I have to spend. A brake upgrade is definitely on my wish list but I have to start small.

The droplinks I bought from Vince looked brand new, no rust; so I think I am in good shape there.

My car does not have the swaybar mounts. The $150 from Partsheaven included the Weltmeister kit, 14mm swaybar, bushings and droplinks.

Based on Vaughan's comment, I checked Paragon and the 19mm bar is $150 but then I need $130 for the droplinks plus the $100 for the Weltmeister kit from Partsheaven so I have exceeded my budget by about $100. Then I called Partsheaven to see if they have any 19mm rear bars. The guy I spoke to asked me to send an e-mail (which I did). Can I use the droplinks from Partsheaven for the 14mm bar with the new 19mm bar from Paragon?

I did not think to ask about 18mm bars (didn't know they existed). I assume that they are not adjustable. Anybody have any experience with 23mm front and 18mm rear swaybar combination?

Thanks again -- Rob
_________________
'81 Weissach Ed. (gettin' better)

[gohim]

The only 18mm rear bar I have ever seen is the early 924 bar that mounted directly to the trailing arms without droplinks, and did not have the center torsion bar carrier mounting points.

Nick wrote that he has a 14mm bar, and a Weltmeister adapter kit. Why not ask him how much for all of it?

I have an extra torsion bar carrier with the rear sway bar mounts in my backyard that came from the 83 944 that I dismantled. If you lived closer, I would trade you for your torsion bar carrier (and $50), then all you would need would be the sway bar plus the droplinks, and center mounts with bushings. As did is right now, the cost of shipping woulf be ugly.

[Vince Ponz]

My 931 has 23mm stock front bar with 18 mm 944 rear swaybar.
_________________
"Never let them see you sweat"
77.5 924 modified track car
79 931 Euro stock
88 924S SE
87 911 Targa stock

[924RACR]

I would get these droplikns before spending $130 on any, factory or not:
http://www.klaindustries.net/droplink/droplink.htm


These are in fact what I have on the racecar, since stock rubber wears out and softens things up - not helpful for racing.

The swaybars we're talking about here are all factory designs, and the droplinks are interchangeable.

Given the options, and that you don't already have mounting points, yes, I'd recommend getting in touch with Nick. Also, you will need the double-ended eccentric bolt where the droplink attaches (as shown in above photo) - replaces your single-ended camber adjusting eccentric bolt. Don't know if the kit has this or not, but you may wish to check.

And yes, after a rear bar, you may want the 5-lug brakes next! I'd personally not hit the track without them, but not everyone agrees.
_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[gohim]

924RACR, I think the sway bar in your photo is actually from a 951. The 14mm one from my 83 944 does not look like that at all. It has flat plates welded onto the ends with two holes (adjustments) available for the droplinks.

Looks like your parking brake doesn't work.

And, what's with the ugly, old rusty, shock?

[924RACR]

Not my photo or car - that's from KLA's website. My rear shocks look like this:


You can see the end of my swaybar in this photo:
http://vaughanscott.com/construction/rear_susp4.jpg

And you are correct, the parking brake in my racecar doesn't work - it's removed.
_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[-nick]

Hey Rob,
I'll beat whatever Parts Heaven wants for the all parts- by ~half (but honestly, that's a pretty cheap quote from a commercial parts house). The Welt kit comes with the two eccentric bolts that the droplinks bolt to and a pair of u-bolts and simple mounts for the torsion bar carrier. Honestly, if you can find someone nearby that wants to unload a carrier with the mounts- you are much better off. Or if you can get someone to cut the mounts off a carrier and then have them welded on to yours. The Welt kit really sucks! It doesn't do a very good job of mounting the bar and it's tough to keep the angles consistent between the mounts (you'd understand this if you saw how it worked).

Anyway, I've got extra droplinks, eccentrics, a 14mm bar, etc. Everything you need to put the bar on. The 19mm bar is also a thought if you've got the extra clams. It uses all the same mounting parts. I think the 19mm bar (set to soft) is a good match for the 23mm front bar.

Those rear links are pretty sweet looking. I'll bet the dealer probably want more for a new stock pair than those too. Nice upgrade.

-nick

[Rob O]

Nick, that's great. I am in. I will send you an e-mail.

I think that I understand what you are saying re. the rear carrier and the Weltmeister kit. However, if I wait to swap the rear carrier or find some brackets to weld onto mine, the summer will pass me by. Between work, quality time with the family and maintenance on my 70 year old cabin, I do not have much time left for my hobby.

Thanks,

Rob
_________________
'81 Weissach Ed. (gettin' better)

[Rob O]

Nick, it was good to meet a fellow board member and I wanted to say thanks. The parts look great, very fair price. I ordered two 3.5" U-bolts from my FLAP. I will try them out to see if they are the right size to replace the rusted Weltmeister U-bolts once they come in.

Thanks Again,
Rob
_________________
'81 Weissach Ed. (gettin' better)

[-nick]

Great Rob! Glad it worked out. I'd suggest coating the threads with some anti-seize or something. Those clamps seem to rust easily. Let me know if you have any trouble setting it up.

-nick