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Joes924Racer · Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:13 am Post subject: Harness install.

I bought a blue RJS 5 way belt harness.
Im planning on bolting them in to the stock
side holes down by the floor and bolting the
shoulder harness to the shoulder hole up by
the rear side window. Im just waiting on the mail.
_________________
1979 porsche 924 Na
1980 porsche Turbo 931GT Replica
Have u ever driven a turbo.

924RACR · Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:37 am Post subject:

The side mounting points, you are correct, use the stock 3-point belt points.

The sub strap needs to be mounted below (1 hole through the floor, it should come with bolts IIRC) and behind the seat. Use large, very large fender washers to distribute the load.

The shoulder harness MUST be mounted directly behind your seat - directly in a line straight back from where the belt sits on your shoulders. The B-pillar IS NOT ACCEPTABLE! You can really F yourself up if you screw this up! Do it right or don't do it at all! Think about the direction of forces when you hit head-on, and decide if you want to be thrown out the window.

What kind of mounting did you choose for the shoulder belts? Presumably bolt-in, or clip-on to eye bolts, that then are bolted in?

I would recommend (in the absence of a roll bar or cage) that you bolt them to the leading edge of the trunk floor. This will minimize the length, thereby minimizing stretch, while providing the closest to horizontal belt routing.

In my car, naturally, I have a cage, with a crossbar behind the shoulders, resulting in very short, horizontally-oriented belts (per the directions). In this case, the belts simply wrap around the bar.

You would have been better off with the 6-point belts; the 2-strap sub belt, in addition to being safer, is easier to install in our cars, as those straps are routed over and also mount at the sides, same point and bolt as the lap belts.

FWIW, I just got my blue 6-point belts back from RJS after being re-webbed... RJS is a few miles away from my house... cost was $50 - which is a good thing, as NASA and SCCA are now requiring belts to be replaced (or rewebbed) every 2 years unless FIA certified. They're also, BTW, going to switch to only allowing 6 and 7-point belts as of 2007.
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Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

kaffine · Joined: 13 Jun 2003 Posts: 644 Location: Las Vegas

Where is the 7th belt?
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80 924
80 931

The best desciption of an atom boils down to something unknown is doing we don't know what.
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Joes924Racer · Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:44 pm Post subject:

Enough belts huh

the 7th belt. I got
the bolt in kind. I also used a few feet of 2"
square tubing to remount the seats,welded up
a frame and bolted it to the floor.

So the shoulder straps need to go to the leading
edge of the rear trunk floor and in a straight line
sounds good . Thanks
_________________
1979 porsche 924 Na
1980 porsche Turbo 931GT Replica
Have u ever driven a turbo.

924RACR · Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:57 pm Post subject:

Yeah, that's the way to go, and if you do later put in a roll bar or cage, you should re-route them to the bar behind the shoulders - shorter length, better angle. Too much of an angle on the belts can compress the spine in an impact.

I think the 7th point is for the sub strap, leading to 3 attachment points for that alone.
_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

jjadczak · Joined: 03 Jan 2003 Posts: 346 Location: Accokeek, MD

Ditto what Vaughan says. Do it right or not at all. What type of see is it? That also depends on how you should mount the belts. God forbid it's a stock seat. You need a seat that is really going to hug you and keep you from sliding around. Having the racing harness looks really cool but you got to do it right the first time or you could really hurt yourself if you do write off your car.

I was t-boned in the drivers side door by a 1300 pound super seven. He probably hit me at about 50-60 MPH head on. I obviously wasn't keeping track at the time of how fast he hit me but in a street car with just the shoulder harness I could have easily been killed. It destroyed both our race cars, and gave him a concussion.

I learned a lot about that crash. First, the roll cage probably did more than anything else to save my life. Second, I leaned that IT DOES NOT PAY to buy a cheap seat. We bought a plastic drag racing seat that didn't quite fit me well. We bought it because it was cheap, looked good and was readily available at a local parts store when it came time to put it in our car. The seat flexed so much that it snapped off the bolts that "held" it to the floor. The right side of the seat pushed and bent part of the bell housing. To everyone's surprise the plastic seat did not shatter when the cage pushed into the seat and pushed me over about five to six inches from the door. Third, while the seat contributed to my being sore for two solid weeks, the belts also did their job. The tech inspectors who go over our cars before we go out there may nit pick at times but for the most part their only concern is for our and everyone's safety. Have someone look at it once you have installed the seat and belts. It's ok to have a second opinion or three. They may point out something that you may have overlooked. If you know someone locally, call 'em up and ask them to take a look at the belts. That's it for now. I've been in another racing accident late last season and I can tell you more about that off site. Just email me if you want more info, etc. That's why I have the nickname "P-Rex"

Jeremy

ryoji · Joined: 10 Oct 2003 Posts: 168 Location: NNJ

SCCA/NASA require a racing harness to be replaced every two years. Does anybody know how long it is good for the street/DE use? How about regular seat belts?

6pt/7pt harness first, or HANS/Hutchens/Issac device first for next step of race safty equipment?
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R.I.P.:a 924 ITA race car

AndyFranklin · Joined: 07 Oct 2003 Posts: 184 Location: Novelty OH

If you have been following the seatbelt stuff - no one really knows the life. In all fairness, there are so many vairables that exact life cannot be predicted.

There has been an interesting thread about H&N restraints on the T1 section of SCCAForums.com. The basic attitude is - if you can't afford one - don't race. I can't disagree with it.

Personally, I don't trust the webbing-based kind (Hutchens ,etc). Ancedotally, it appears within NASCAR that everyone who has crashed wearing the Hutchens has changed to the HANS. The Issacs appears to be well engineered.

Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200. Get a restraint NOW.

924RACR · Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:15 am Post subject:

Yes, next step is a 6-point or more belt, if you currently have a 5-point, and a HANS or ISAAC device. Note that, for most belts, you can buy the sub strap separate of the others, and upgrade that way. I would also recommend H+N device first, though I'd expect you could afford to do both (as in, they're not equivalent investments, belts are cheap).

I was quite happy with the utility of my ISAAC device last year when I "used" it... would heartily recommend it. Likewise the HANS is good; they both have their advantages and disadvantages. Anything else, sorry, it's relatively useless IMO.
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Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

Joes924Racer · Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:13 am Post subject:

Ahh yea thanks guys. So Vaughan or anyone whio knows the lip on the leading edge of the trunk has a lip that the carpet or something slides
under I can notch that for a hook up my question is: What just drill a hole thru and crawl underneath to get a bolt thru and washer it up centered behind the seat somewhere close to the edge. I made a strong seat frame out of 2" tubing.
_________________
1979 porsche 924 Na
1980 porsche Turbo 931GT Replica
Have u ever driven a turbo.

Lizard · Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:43 am Post subject:

with how hard it is to drop the tank in the snailshell cars, I would just drop the tank, and then weld in a extra thick piece of steel then drill the holes through that for the seatbelts,
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3 928s,

Joes924Racer · Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:49 pm Post subject:

I posted this early tonight though forgot the pic. I was
talken and trying to do this.

Drop the tank and weld in a tube no thats alot of silly work.
Theres circle A. thats close to the lip or maybe a little lower
then theres hole B. a existing hole that takes a rubber plug
I think I should make a hole center mass in the region below
cirlce A. Or I could make a slot feed the belt thru and use the
bolt from the top shock mount.

Or on here somewhere?

_________________
1979 porsche 924 Na
1980 porsche Turbo 931GT Replica
Have u ever driven a turbo.

924RACR · Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 11:08 pm Post subject:

Neither of the two spots you've circled in the first picture have substantial strength. You want to go to the very front edge of the trunk - right where that wiring harness is snaking behind. If you have the option of adding reinforcement (which would be good), a plate welded in there (the bigger the better, stitch-welded around the perimiter) would be a very good idea. Even better, if you can use a piece of angle iron on the trunk edge itself - just grind off the lip that's there.

However, of course, you're recommended to remove the fuel tank if doing any of this welding, as it snugs up under that sheetmetal (trunk floor).
_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

Joes924Racer · Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:42 am Post subject:

My welding guy wont weld on any part still on the car .
He will weld pipe tubing and cut anything any way I want it
done. How about a piece of angle iron and a flat piece used
as a bun with the trunk floor the fillerand I bolt it in for awhile.
Wonder how long to make the bun? Say 8" and I can double bolt
it.

_________________
1979 porsche 924 Na
1980 porsche Turbo 931GT Replica
Have u ever driven a turbo.

Alex Roy · Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:02 pm Post subject:

Why don't you get one of those harness bars that bolts between the stock seatbelt mounting points on the "B" pillars?