924Board.org

[eturbo924]

It is funny that each car guy likes to bust another about what he is spending on his car. Well not everyone but check out how some here come down on the "rice guys". Now I admit I also think it is shall I say stupid to put racing stickers and huge wheels on a pimped out Honda... but at the same time these guys could look at the cost to put a V-8 into a 924 and say ...WHY? Yes you will get a fast 924... maybe screw up the ballance... but definately never get your money back. I have always said to each his own, but I think we should all get off the pick on each other kick. Obviously money put into just about any car is money out the window. Most cars depreciate.... as we all find out at some point.

Eric
http://www.geocities.com/eturbo924

[Rick MacLaren]

Sorry if the Canada commnet stirred too much nationalism or suggested pro-Canadianism. I'm actually a Quebec Nationalist, and nightly I pray for Quebec's separation.

Adie made her gender public on Rennlist and and I just assumed she would want to be identified as female - so that's why I corrected (I think) Dwak when he said 'he'. If she is actually a 'he' I'll use it, or if she prefers 'she' then I'll use that too. Until s/he responds I'll just keep assuming she's a she.

Eric: I won't pick on someone's car. I will pick on dumb ideas. It serves no ones interests to watch someone piss their money away on an ill fated project. And 924.org is about good advice, not being nicey nicey all the time and letting someone make a mistake.

Regarding the V8 conversion on the previous postings, I do not believe that car does 0-60 in 2.8 seconds. That's total bullshit. A whopper like that requires proof.

I frankly would LOVE to see a V8 installed in a 924 for cheap. But when looking at Adie's car I don't see a moving car...I see a project with no hood. From where I sit, after investigating through numerous places in Ontario, it doesn't seem feasible to do a V8 conversion to this car without a LOT of money. So I don't think it's incumbent on me to applaud the V8 effort - at least until a hood is installed and the thing is on the road for cheap. I call healthy skepticism a "healthy" thing.

Costs:

Rover V8 into an MG or TR7 $1600 USD to $2300 USD, $3220 CDN - engine only - price does not include the huge list of numerous added parts.
TR7 http://www.geocities.com/dog_breath20002000/classic_tan.html
MG http://www.mgcars.org.uk/v8conv/v8conv1.html

The $500 USD Land Rover engine is possible, but, - the seller is recommending new rings and hone - again, you can't get something for nothing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=594123762

It's cool to do a conversion. Just don't be stupid and think you're gonna get something for nothing.

Finally, horsepower. I think if you put $5000 (a low estimate by the words of my mechanics) into a car conversion, then you're probably getting 190 HP (e.g., the 4-door Range Rover uses an updated 1960s General Motors aluminum pushrod V8. The base 4.0-liter version generates 188 horsepower). Congratulations! But if you took the same $5000 and put it into the stock beast, you can get 200 HP and more, and still have a balanced vehicle that mechanics can recognise with the original parts - plus you have some money left over for beer and a proper hood! Heh heh heh.

Best conversion? A 944 Turbo engine with all the accessories. Over 250 HP and no need for carbs. Same chassis, same car, bigger engine. The racers do it. Racers don't add a V8 to the car, they add a 944 turbo to the car. Do what the experts do. Expert racers use the chassis for a 944 turbo engine or a 968 engine. Why reinvent the wheel?
_________________
1980 Porsche 931 C2H5OH/H2O injected 15 PSI
1979 Porsche 924

* The author reserves the right to tease the Brits for warm beer until something more amusing strikes my fancy.
** New Zealanders and Aussies may also be tormented on occasion for their unusual ability to stand, walk and live while being totally upside down.

[ This Message was edited by: Rick MacLaren on 2001-09-07 06:32 ]

[dwak]

You're right Rick. I'm sorry about ranting. I'm OK now, I've had some medicine and I'm much calmer. {2 Heineken}

[Rick MacLaren]

I think I'll be doing some of that when I get home Dwak! You know, now Adie has me intrigued...

Oh! I started polishing the aluminum valve cover last night on my 931. It's AWESOME. Spent $8.00 CDN on oil and sandpaper. Got taught from a tool and die friend of mine as to the proper techniques for polishing. Pics to come shortly.

Say, where are you in Ontario?

[pst]

Rick, what do you consider cheap? I built a Chevy V8 924 about 10 years ago. The single most expensive part was the radiator. I had a custom one made from Griffins (big in the street rod industry) and it cost me $400. I scavenged for most everything else. The McLeod hydraulic throu-out bearing, $260; clutch disc $32; pressure plate (rebuilt) $45; the engine (327 cid) I had, used flywheel $15; Chevy motor mounts $40/pr.; the rest was just hoses, belts & misc. parts. I used 220# front springs from Performance Products (currently $109.50).
A typical small block Chevy weighs approx. 540#; 924 n/a 345# turbo 365# 944 n/a 414#. If you work out the weights, front vs rear with the chevy for the 924 n/a 52%f 48%r. Compare that to the stock 924 n/a 49%f 51%r & to a 944 turbo 51%f 49%r. That's not much different. Also the v8 has it's weight balanced over the crankshaft centerline vs the 924/944 where most of the engine weight is on the right side due to the slanted engine. I have been trying to compile all of my drawings and info but it has been very difficult due to the fact that I have 18 mo. old triplets. Hopefully I will have this together in the not to distant future. As for my present project (924 Carrera GTS replica based on an '84 944) I haven't decided what engine that I will use. It's a choice between the Chevy V8; Buick V6; Buick/Rover V8; or building a 3.3 litre 944 n/a engine. Because of the cost of special equipment necessart to pass Illinois rolling road emission test, I am leaning towards the 3.3L 944. The 924 that I built with a V8 was a 1977. In Illinois, cars built before 1981 have a very leanient test, only at idle.

[Rick MacLaren]

PST: Um...you didn't say what you paid for your engine. It was hanging around, and you used it, but, what's a 327 worth in good condition? Or what's it worth when it can pull a 2600 lb car from 0 to 60 in 2.8 seconds? I bet it's worth a LOT. Still, I'd love to see the car. Can you post a pic? Where is it now?

Ok, since we're talking Chevy, now you're in an area I understand. Let's remember that I'm responding to claims of, and I quote "2.8 seconds for 0 to 60". Now we're on the same page.

Let's start first with the cost for say anygood Chevy engine. We're decidedly in LT1 territory now:

1993 LT1 $3500 USD

However, that won't get you from 0 to 60 in 2.8 seconds, not by a long shot. For that, you're gonna need a GM steel crank, Manley rods, SRP pistons, 8.6:1 compression, pro magnum rockers, competition cam, and a GM extreme duty roller chain.

1993 LT1 with above accessories: $6000 USD.

PST: Not meaning to be cranky here, but Good luck finding that much horsepower for free. Prices in USD. Other conversion data given below from other projects.

Exhaust
Pair of V8 type stainless steel manifolds 395.00
Stainless steel V8 join pipes 60.00
Stainless steel exhaust (twin box) 170.00
Set of V8 exhaust manifold gaskets 12.00
Pair of exhaust saddle clamps 3.00

Engine
Remote oil filter with filter 23.00
Bracket to mount remote oil filter 15.00
Oil pump base 85.00
Pair of CB engine mounting brackets 35.00
Pair of RB engine mounting brackets 35.00
Pair of engine mounting rubbers 14.00
Packing piece for engine mounting 1.00
Braided oil gauge pipe 26.00
Set of 3 rubber oil cooler pipes 34.00
Extra for SS braided hoses 10.00
Engine tie bar 29.00

Gearbox
Adaptor plate with crank adaptor
Guesstimate 175.00
Clutch slave cylinder 42.00

Pair of gearbox mounting rubbers 26.00
944 Torque tube with spline 300.00
Clutch slave cylinder flexi pipe 18.00
944 clutch kit 450.00
944 Clutch release arm 26.00
944 Clutch slave cylinder 146.00
Slave push rod 5.00

Induction System
Holley 390 cfm 4 barrel carb 235.00
Holley to inlet gasket 1.60
Offenhauser Dual port inlet manifold 190.00
14" Mr Gasket low ridder cleaner 32.00
Replacement air filter for above 9.50
Mini air cleaner 21.00
Replacement air filter for above 8.00
Throttle cable bracket 19.50
Small crank case breather
(for SD1 rocker cover) 9.00
Small ventilator/flame trap
(for SD1 rocker cover) 17.20
Hose for above 7.70
PCV valve (for use with Holley carb) 4.40

Brake Parts
944 brake conversion kit 400.00
944 Brake pads say 150.00

Suspension
Automotion springs 100.00
High performance tubular torsion bar for 944 500.00

Add all of these ON TOP OF $6000 for your block, and about, say, $1000 for a good 944 tranny and you're roughly in the area of a fully converted 924 V8 that'll do 0 to 60 in 2 point something seconds. All prices exclude taxes @ 15%.

I've been watching this site for about 5 years and I haven't seen one cheap V8 conversion that actually got completed with all the parts back together on the car, insured, and running properly. And I certainly haven't seen one that'll beat a 924 with a 944 turbo engine in it. When I get a plan from someone that is cheap and works (i.e., can be done by anyone), you can bet your ass I'd buy it and do it. I've got a 924 that needs power. But until then, I'm skeptical.
_________________
1980 Porsche 931 C2H5OH/H2O injected 15 PSI
1979 Porsche 924

[ This Message was edited by: Rick MacLaren on 2001-09-07 08:15 ]

[wdb]

if your interested,I found addies info at her home track.seems her car is running,stats are in there some where
http://www.prestage.com/site/site_display.asp?SiteID=133
she has some info at( prestage .com)best run was 12.3
her engine is supercharged,some details from that site:...Adie Thorp, started racing in 96 with a 58 ford,
just built a Porsche 924 GT with a Rover V8. Still havin fun.
Porsche 924 Carrera GT, Rover 3,900 cc fell into the bay, with a little thought the belhousing can be adapted to fit the 944 turbo torque tube, this is reputed to handle 450 bhp !!!. The trans axle is beefed up and slipper differentials are factory. No2 via a plate system and an old Holly 600 vac sec machined to flow around 725 cfm take care of the fueling, JE pistons take the punishment through stock rods lightened, ballanced and polished, the crank is a crossdrilled and ballanced item, the flywheel is alli which we coppied from the original then lightened and the clutch is a 5 1/2 inch 3 plate AP piece of kit. The Cam is of my own creation gringing it somewhere between a Yamaha F1 and Hillman Avenger profile. One of the new style Eletric waterpumps cool the engine and I'm looking into a better alternator as the engine is located by a motor plate I'm short on room.



[ This Message was edited by: wdb on 2001-09-07 12:14 ]

[ This Message was edited by: wdb on 2001-09-07 12:18 ]

[ This Message was edited by: wdb on 2001-09-07 16:02 ]

[Guest]

Hey Rick, Stop counting the money and do it. Just don't let your wife find the receipts. I have a SB 350 I'll give you if you'll do it. It will need a rebuild kit but your better off than running something straight out the salvage yard. You can easily get 325-350 hp with out breaking the bank.
Pete, how did the car handle after the conversion. What was the breaking like and did you try using the stock raditor?
________________
CANADA IS FAR FROM#16 Where is your national pride?

[ This Message was edited by: ADAM!! on 2001-09-07 18:33 ]

[eturbo924]

Advice is good and please always give it here. Just saying that if some one wants to throw their money away on a project .... so be it. That is what they want. They could always pay 20K for a honda and keep it for 10 years .... and have it be worth 5-6K. When you look at it that way... how is it any different than purchasing a 924 for 2K or so and putting 6K into it? Money loss is money loss.

My vote on this one would be 944S2, 968 or 944 turbo S motor into the 924 over a V-8. The torque put out by the S2 and 968 is great.

Eric
http://www.geocities.com/eturbo924

[Rick MacLaren]

I just had a look at Adie's 924 GT with the V8. Now that's more like it! I still doubt sincerely the 2.8 second 0 to 60 run, but I'll stay quiet on that for now.



And yes, Adam, I'll take a V8 please!

_________________
1980 Porsche 931 C2H5OH/H2O injected 15 PSI
1979 Porsche 924

[ This Message was edited by: Rick MacLaren on 2001-09-08 00:34 ]

[MAS]

Hey Rick... regarding the 3.5 liter V8s.

True that in stock form the Rovers get under 200 hp, but in the UK, British hot rodders and other car companies (like Morgan) get well over 200 reliable and "usable" hp... more like in the 220-250 range at least that much torque too.

However, I completely agree... a good V8 conversion that makes a fast and day-to-day drivable car is not a cheap thing to do.

There's a guy in my city who has a V8 (1st generation) RX7 conversion. The car actually isn't that fast off the line, because the rear end is so light. Also, in the handling department, it makes a 5.0 Mustang look like a Forumala 1 car.

-MAS

[Rick MacLaren]

Yeah I agree, MAS, but Adam is offering one for free here, and I DO want a straight liner for some fun in and around town, so what the hell? Apparently these guys, and people like Adie are ASSURING me I can do this for cheap, so I'm gonna take them up on their offer and try to do it. Adie, I am sure, will show me how I can do this for real cheap - cheaper than souping up a 924 stock engine. All I ask for is 210 HP - I know that, since I have already done the head work and high RPM valve springs to my stock engine, I can get 210 HP for like $2000 CDN (rebuild + turbo), these guys are assuring me I can do it to a V8 for less. So I'm taking them up on it. Adam will contribute the engine and Adie will provide me the expertise and parts sources to do it for less than $2K, I am sure.

(I was one of those kids in school who always loved a dare!)

[MAS]

Well you'll easily get 210 hp out of the 3.5 liter V8... and it'll probably have at least 250 lb-ft of torque too.

Also, if you could get you hands on a stroker kit for the Porsche 924S/944 2.5 liter engine, you'd have a pretty decent amount of power. The 2.5 liter can be stroked to 2.8 liters. Of course, this would probably be a better project for someone with a 924S. Keeping in mind that this would also, I assume raise the compression ratio. So I'm guessing that even without any mods, the 2.8 would give at least 175-185 hp, with a similar boost in torque too (the Euro-spec 2.5 liter is already 163 hp). With some minor mods, a very "usable" 190-200 hp would be easy.

-MAS

[dwak]

Adam,
Nova Scotia is #1. With that I'll agree. Southern Ontario is #16 and going to hell in a hand cart! {too many people) Canadians are supposed to be quietly competent and not overt and brash but maybe I'm stuck in a past that probably never existed.
Rick,
I'm not fond of new cars with the exception of the Z8 BMW or the Viper, so dropping $10000 into an old Porsche wouldn't phase me if I got what I wanted. A shit-box Honda costs $20G's. By the way, I live near Brighton and I think we both know Brad Wright, the consummate Porsche guy.

[leon]

There is a lot of rubbish talked about 0-60 times.
But does a better (ie lower) 0-60 mean you car is faster than somebodies elses? Hmmmm.

I had a look at the site of the rover powered porsche "1st time out 12.8 no gas
2nd run 12.3 no gas but a broken adjuster on a roller rocker stopped play. " The fi porsche 924 was supposed to provide around 7 - 8 sec quarter mile, which means that the rover powered 924 was actually slower than stock.

The World's Fastest Accelerating Production Car 0-60 in 3.4 seconds,Autocar Challenge 1997.It has a Vauxhall 2.0 litre 16 valve 4 cyl engine equipped with ALPHA Engine Management System.
for V8's the Dodge Viper RT/10 Dodge Viper - The fastest and most powerful American sports car. 0-60 in 4 flat.
Formula 1 are the fastest car with a 0-60 time of 3.1 seconds and a top speed of over 230 MPH. With a price tag of around $900,000, they are also the most expensive.

Therefore I am suprised that they havent thrown one of these 2.6 sec old rover donks into at least minardi or a prost ! What do you reckon!




[ This Message was edited by: leon on 2001-09-08 11:43 ]