924Board.org

[Sleykin]

Look under the hood for a sticker too. I have one in my car from the last belt change ... but then I put it there. It came with the belts so I used it. There is a chance the shop that did yours stuck one in there someplace too.
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Glenn Neff
Medford, OR
87' 924S

[Manning]

[924sdriver]

Manning,
Great tip...very good explanation
Also,
Thanks to everyone else for all the help. I was supposed to take delivery of the car last night...but the transport driver called in the a.m. said he had the car and would deliver it in the p.m. That was the last I heard from him (I hope he didn't decide to go for a drive )

[Greenie]

I have to disagree on the distilled water vs. tap water. I work in a lab and the use of distilled water in our instruments where the water sits is not recommended because distilled/deionized water is more corrosive that tap water (less minerals yes, but this makes the water corrosive).
If you are working off a city system I would recommend tap water. If you're working off a well with lots of minerals I would recommend going somewhere on a city system and using that water.

Just my 2 cents on something I acutally know something about on this board.

Greenie

[Manning]

Actually, your best bet is to use filtered, demineralized water. If you are going to use city tap water be aware that flouride is actually somewhat corrosive, so you aren't really doing your car any favors by adding it to the cooling system.

Deionized water is more corrosive in that it is looking for ions and will pull them out of your aluminum parts. Chemical companies are aware of this and generally blend coolant/antifreeze to compensate for this ion extraction. Some sway in the other direction, assuming you will be using tap water, such as GAF.

Most of the antifreeze manufactures I have looked into over the past few years recommend the use of distilled water.
_________________
Michael Manning
1988 924S Undergoing weight loss program

[Manning]

oops
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Michael Manning
1988 924S Undergoing weight loss program

[Greenie]

Agreed....we shouldn't use distilled and deionized interchangeably.

A possible good source of "de-mineralized" water might be those new no dry wash kits Mr. Clean. They use a Pur filter which removes deposits and minerals yet shouldn't make the water corrosive like deionizing would.

Greenie

[924sdriver]

WELL...I FINALLY GOT THE CAR LAST NIGHT. I'm pretty pleased. The car does have a ligit 27,400 miles. It was dusk when it was finally delivered, and here is what I've found thus far. If anyone has any thoughts, ideas, previous experience with similar problems, please let me know.
- Front engine service will need done (It was serviced but in '97)
- Non-working wipers
- Dash is worthless, bad cracking and UV damage
- NO DENTS but missing body side molding in places, and paint is a little rough in areas....I'm thinking about new paint all around.
- Two of the wheels seem to be oxidized to almost a white coloration
- Needs brakes despartley

It is apparent the car was just neglected, and needs a little love. It would appear this is going to be an easy, although expensive, restoration. All help, as always, is appreciated.

[Chrenan]

If the belts haven't been touched in 7 years, I would tow it to the mechanic to have them replaced.
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1987 951 - M193 Version for Japan

[gohim]

The dashboards are virtually all 924, 924S, and 944 cars you will find for sale will be very badly cracked up.

As far as the dashboard goes, you have four choices:

#1 Ignore the cracks, and allow them to continue cracking. Eventually the cracks at the center speaker grille will reach the center vents, distorting them, and causing the center console instrument panel to distort and crack.

#2 Get one of the cheap vacuum formed plastic covers that lays over the top of the dashboard, hiding the cracks (about $80-$100). This only hides the problem and will have the same result as #1 above.

#3 Remove the dashboard and send it to be redone by a professional. "Just Dashes (located in Van Nuys, CA) is an experienced shop which has been the subject of a couple of magazine articles. Having a 924/924S dashboard with a glovebox lid restored in original style material and color will take the company about 4-6 weeks, and cost you about $1000, plus shipping. You must supply a core dashboard, or send the one from your car.

#4 Bite the bullet. Locate an original new Porsche replacement dashboard $1500-$2000 if available. Time to remove your old dashbaord and replace with a new dashboard is about 8 hours, according to the mechanic's flat rate book.

The factory silver finish on the phone dial wheels deteriorates to the white color (actually the primer under the silver paint). You can repaint after removing the dead paint with a can of Wurth silver paint. They have a clear coat that you can spray on after the silver to try to make the silver last longer. You will need about one can of primer, one can of sdilver, and one can of clear per wheel at the Wurth price of about $15 per can.

The alternative is to have all four wheels powdercoated. I had a set done over six years ago and they still look great (cost me about $160 to get all four done at the time).

I mentioned GAF manufactured anti-freeze, because that is what Porsche recommends. Porsche does not offer anti-freeze for sale, they recommend that you get the GAF manufactured anti-freeze. Personally I find the GAF stuff, the best working, longest last anti-freeze. I don;t change the anti-freeze in my cars every year, or every three years. I replace it when it needs replacement. The Havoline Extended Life stuff that I pour into the Taurus Wagon seems to breakdown is less than 2 years. I have the GAF stuff in my 81 924, and it has not been change in over six years, yet there isn't any corrosion, and it still looks and smells like fresh anti-freeze. Many of the current anti-freeze manufacturers claim that thet products are safe for cooling systems, yet there products do contain phosphates, which will cause corrosion in any cooling systems including aluminum.

The brakes should not be worn out with only 27K miles on the car. I would suspect that the real number is 127K miles. Does the car have the original tires supplied by Porsche?

The original body side molding does not just fall off. Are the "rough" paint panels the roof and the hood? If not, combined with the missing body side molding pieces, I would guess that the car has been involved in an accident or two.

[Manning]

Primarily you will not see corrosion as such in the aluminum cooling system parts, though you may (not likely) see erosion. This will be through either cavitation as I described earlier or through precipitation which will happen to some degree not matter what coolant/antifreeze you use as the inhibitors are depleted. Also aluminum tends to "protect" itself to some degree by oxidizing, which is quite stable.

Bear in mind that the US big three used coolant/anitfreeze containing phospate in their aluminum engine development and reported no appreciable loss of material in the cooling system.

All that said, if you are not willing to observe a proper cooling system maintenance schedule you may want to use an aluminum safe coolant/antifreeze, though the use of higher priced coolants is your call.

As a side note, all the chemical companies I have researched do state that while their coolants are safe for all engines and cooling system components they recommend that you stick with the manufacturers specified coolant during the warranty period so that you do not risk voiding your engine warranty.

As a side, side note, I have been using Prestone for the last 7 years and have not noticed any issues with corrosion during those 40K miles.
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Michael Manning
1988 924S Undergoing weight loss program

[Manning]

Oops, I forgot to finish.

Any deposits you may see glogging the cooling system are more likely going to be mineral drop out as I described before. These will be the result of the use of tap water in areas that have a lot of minerals in the water.

In addition to this, since you brought up extended life coolants, you SHOULD NOT use extended life coolants in an older car that has had a long history of sodium silicate (corrosion inhibitor) and phosphate coolants use in its past. This can lead to precipitation of mineral salts (sodium silicate) that are residulate from past use. Since the chemistry of extended life coolants cannot suspend the sodium silicate properly they will drop out in the same fashion as described above and will cling to the hot parts of the engine blocking passage ways.
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Michael Manning
1988 924S Undergoing weight loss program

[924sdriver]

Well...I've decided to restore the car, and take a swift financial kick in the shorts. But...I'll have a great car when I'm done. Anyway...in response to a couple of responses

YES The car only has 27K on the engine....it runs and drives tight. The brakes are gone because the original pads are made of organic material....meaning that over time they will decay.

The car has never been "crunched". I know enough about body work to tell that. The molding's adhesive...yes that's right...Porsche in they're infinite wisdom "glued" the molding on, aged and dried, thus dropping the molding. I will probably remove all of it, and leave it that way for the new paint.

The whole dash thing...sucks. The cap is the only reasonable alternative. $1000 for referb or $1500 - $2k new...I can't do it.

My plan is this...
1. Get the car to a garage, have the front engine service, and brakes done (I tried them myself, but the calipers a one big ball of rust, and the pins were not coming out....and if they did....weren't going back in.) Okay, so that should be a nice little bill, plus the towing.

2. Tear out the interior over the winter and piece by piece rebuild it. Okay...another nice little chunk of cash (Redo the wheels too.)

3. Spring time...NEW PAINT. Project complete (Kinda...always repairs, I'm sure)