924Board.org

nguyenaq · Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Posts: 65

the owner changed the timing belt at 45k miles on august 8, 2002. the belt has not been retensioned. anyone know how much it would cost to retension the belt at the shop?

i looked on ebay for those power antennas. they are made for early 924 up to 82. as well as for 944 and 928 cars. I dont see the 88 924. can these be fitted on the 88 924?

Stu2j · Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:16 am Post subject:

the owner changed the timing belt at 45k miles on august 8, 2002. the belt has not been retensioned. anyone know how much it would cost to retension the belt at the shop?

It has been driven almost 2 years and 11,000 miles so it's a little late

but to get it checked and re-tensioned won't cost much. I hate to guess at prices since they tend to vary widely but my mechanic would probably charge around $50 bucks.

i looked on ebay for those power antennas. they are made for early 924 up to 82. as well as for 944 and 928 cars. I dont see the 88 924. can these be fitted on the 88 924?

They will work on your car. I've got one of the black ones to put on my 924S when I get around to changing out the radio for a CD player. Just haven't got the CD player yet.
_________________
-Stu
924 owner since 1988
924S owner since 2002
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gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

Without a retension at 2K miles after installation, the belts are definitely too loose, and may have already been damaged. The plastic belt covers may also be damaged as a result.

A normal belt retensioning should cost between $100 and $150. The 2K initial belt retension is often covered as part of the cost of the belt replacement and front of engine service.

Without inspection by a Porsche Dealer, I would not consider paying more than the lower amount that was discussed at the beginning of this message topic ($2000-$2500).

Try telling the Seller that you will give him the $2000 for the car As-Is, and will have the car towed to the Porsche Dealer for Inspection and Necessary Repairs. Offer him more, say $3000-$3250, if he will deliver the car to the Porsche Dealer, and pay the Dealer Mechanics to inspect the belts, and belt covers, retension the belts if undamaged, and the belts and belt covers have not been damaged. If the Porsche Dealer determines that the belts and belt covers need to be replaced, then you will give him the $2000 for the car, if there is no other damage to the engine. That way, if the Seller is sure that there is no damage to the car, and it can be safely driven, he gets another $1000-$1250 for proving it. If the car turns out to have problems, then you get it at a price that will allow you to start making repairs without getting stuck at the bottom of the money pit (at least you will have a ladder part way up).

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

Wait until you own the car before buying a new antenna. Someone may have enlarged the mounting hole.

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

The 2K mile belt retension is critical because new belts stretch. When they do, they get loose enough to flap, and when they flap, they may contact the inside of the belt covers. When that happens, the belts get damaged, as well as the belt covers, and belt failure can occur.

Porsche is very specific about the 2K belt retension. On early 944s, there were numerous belt failures when the belts became loose without retensioning, and Porsche redesigned the inside of the belt covers to attempt to make more room inside incase the belts became loose to try to lessen belt damage.

Belt tensioning/retensioning take a special tool set that is not own by most mechanics, since it in watercooled Porsche specific. Expect the labor charge to retension the belts to be about 1-1.5 hours of mechanic's time. Most mechanics competent to perform this operation that own the tools necessary are going to charge $75-$125 a hour. In may cases, the cost of the 2K belt retension is included in the cost of the labor when the belts are replaced.

Some people choose to ignore the specific instructions from Porsche regarding the care and maintenance of the 944/924S. This is their right, and often, we hear about the huge bills these same people incur when the belts break, and valves get bent.

The fact is, belt maintenance is a fact of life for the owners of these cars. When you ignore the belt maintenance, you are developing a future project car for someone else, because the cost of damaged engine repair on these cars exceeds the cost of buying another running car of the same type. The car that you are considering buying is only worth $500-$1000 if the belts break.

Stu2j · Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:56 am Post subject:

Try telling the Seller that you will give him the $2000 for the car As-Is, and will have the car towed to the Porsche Dealer for Inspection and Necessary Repairs.

This is why his estimate is three times mine. The Porsche dealer IS the money pit.

If I had a running 88 924S with that kind of mileage for sale and you offered me $2000, I know what I would say.
_________________
-Stu
924 owner since 1988
924S owner since 2002
Click here to view them:

MAAS · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 72

- Almost all the dashboards crack. This has little to do with the actual mileage. It's mainly a combo of age and heat and sun that do the dashes of these cars in.

- The VDO odometers on all of these cars (944's included) are notoriously unreliable. If you find a possible low mileage car, unless the owner has meticulous records to prove this, the chances are the the mileage is not accurate. By the way, this does not necessarily mean that you are being scammed. It's just an unfortunate "reality" about these VDO gauges.

- The timing belts will have to be replaced immediately, they are way overdue. And the water pump will likely need replacing to while you're there.

- As for speed. Although you'll see lots of people bemoaning how slow these cars are... they are actually fairly quick. Regardless of what you read, both the 87 and 88 have 0-60's in well under 8 seconds. The 88 is actually about 7.4 with a high 15 quarter mile. Also, they have a fair amount of mid-range punch, especially in 3rd gear. So you don't actually have to rev the crap out of them (Honda-style) to get reasonable performance (although, of course , you can

).

- The handling is first rate. The cars have an almost 50-50 weight balance due to the rear gearbox layout. The brakes, ain't too shabby either, with big 10"+ discs front and back.

-MAS

RobG · Joined: 26 Feb 2004 Posts: 57 Location: Rhode Island

[i]i looked on ebay for those power antennas. they are made for early 924 up to 82. as well as for 944 and 928 cars. I dont see the 88 924. can these be fitted on the 88 924?[/i]

I just installed a power antenna in my 87 924S which I bought at autozone for around $40, $20 cheaper than the hirchmann model for sale at various online retailers. The job wasn't too difficult, though it took the better part of a day to install and ground properly. The X-factor is how difficult it is for you to thread wires through and reinstall the grommet. Also, if you're changing out the radio you might run into some 'fun'. Previous threads on this board about this were a big help (thanks stu!).

[i]1) The owner reports that the odometer recently stopped working. It is currently reading 56K miles. Are there any ways to determine if those miles are legtimate? (gauging tire life?) I do not want to buy a car that is claimed to have 56k miles when in actuality, it may bave well over 100k.. [/i]

Don't get duped like this. Like Sleykin (and I imagine many others), I had some problems with some fishy odometer claims. CARFAX reports are good, but make sure to check the car out thouroughly to see if there is any anachronistic wear. Worn seats or pedals, undue wear on knobs, controls, etc can indicate that the car has seen some extra miles. It might not just be a few either....

Like your other advice, I'd say that $4k is too much, with a $2k job in a year or so and the smell of mileage fraud in the air. $2-2.5k is reasonable, if the car is already at your mechanic's when you give the seller your money and there is work to be done with the timing belt. I'd avoid taking the chance of driving it there yourself [i]after paying[/i] for the reasons already stated. If all seems fine regarding the timing belt/mileage, i'd still lowball the seller. The ad says "obo" (assuming it's the one for sale in Louisville)....

Good luck, don't let flashy looks get the best of you!
_________________
1987 924S
#1066

Stu2j · Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:41 am Post subject:

nguyenaq · Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Posts: 65

I managed to drop the price down from $4k down to $3,200 after complaining about the missed maintenance requirement for the timing belt. that was the lowest the seller would go and i think im happy with that price too. I also got the seller to take the car to a mechanic to check for the timing belt as well as to retension the belt today it. All this negotiation over the phone too. I have yet to actually see and drive the car

But ill be able to take a spin on wednesday afternoon. hope everything goes well...

any other advice ?

Stu2j · Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:01 am Post subject:

If the seller provides you with an invoice that the timing belt was checked and tensioned, that is an excellent price for the car assuming everthing else checks out ok on the test drive.

Good luck! These are really fun cars to drive.

P.S. That's a better deal than I got. Mine is an 87, it cost $400 more, and I had to pay for the initial inspection

Ahhh.. but just look at her now...

_________________
-Stu
924 owner since 1988
924S owner since 2002
Click here to view them:

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

Get the phone number of the shop that Seller claims did the belt retension, phone the shop, talk like you are considering having some work done on a 944, and find out if the shop knows what they are doing (experience with the 944/924S engine). Does the shop own and use the P9201 Porsche belt tensioning tool, or do they guesstimate the belt tension?

If you are convinced that the shop is legit, then ask for the mechanic who supposedly did the retension belt work on the car you are interested in, and find out direct what the condition of the belts are. Find out if this is the same shop they replaced the belts last time, and exactly what parts they replaced, and with what brand of parts.

The Seller may have told the shop that he is selling car, and doesn't care if the belts will last long, as long as they can be tensioned now.

Ask the mechanic how loose the belts were before he tightened them up, and was there any evidence that the belts were damaged, or the belt covers were damaged from the loose belts.

Ask the mechanic if there were any signs of the water pump or front oil seals leakings. This would require the immediate "front of engine service".

Ask the shop if they are prepared to stand behind the work that they did, if a/the belt/s fail within 3-6 months.

Stu2j · Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:17 am Post subject:

Roger · Joined: 06 Jan 2003 Posts: 1235 Location: Cordova, TN

You can find antennas on ebay. I bought a replacment for $25.
_________________
1981 924 NA

Some people are like Slinkies. Not really good for anything, but you
still can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

So Stu2j,

How will the Prospective Buyer be able to tell if the Seller really got the belts retensioned?

How will the Prospective Buyer be able to tell if the shop where the Seller claims he had the belts inspected and retensioned actually is qualified to do the work, without speaking to them?

If he doesn't call the shop that is supposed to have done the work, who exactly would you have him call to ask if that particular auto repair shop is experienced in working on 16 year old Porsche 924S cars with 944 engines?

Just how is this new guy supposed to sort out who is qualified to work on his new car? While not all Porsche Dealer Mechanics are competent (I have met plenty that are not), at least if something goes wrong, Porsche PCNA will be there to ask for support to straighten out the problem. And the Porsche Dealer Mechanic will have the correct tools available, and the Factory Workshp manuals to refer to for information.

Every Porsche Dealership that I have been to will stand behind the work that they charge for. If the shop/s where you can get the belts retensioned for $50 won't warranty their work, that tells you something about the quality of the work that they do. I did not just suggest going to a Porsche Dealership, I suggested finding a competent shop experienced in working on the 944/924S engine. Try reading the entire message thread, before you waste everybody's time following me from subject thread to thread attacking me.

I try to purchase Genuine Porsche supplied parts for critical car components because the parts that come from Porsche include a 2-year warranty. Some aftermarket parts suppliers actually wholesale some of the parts that they sell from Porsche, and those parts would have the same 2-year warranty. But, when the parts are purchased from a Porsche Dealer, I have seen, read and heard of multiple cases when Porsche PCNA has picked up the whole tab (parts and labor) when the parts that are under warranty fail and cause other damage (for instance, when a timing belt fails, and the engine is damaged).

When you order your cheap parts from the FLAPS, and have your cheap mechanic do the work, will he repair and replace the parts for free two years later if and when they fail prematurely? Nope, not by your own admission. Now I am not saying that your mechanic can't change a tire, or install the clutch in your 924S, without screwing up, but six months down the road when that cheap, made in Brazil throwout bearing fails, will your mechanic replace the defective throwout bearing for free? Nope, not by your admission.

I buy plenty of non-genuine Porsche parts for my Porsche cars: light bulbs, tires, grease, wheel bearings, motor oil, oil filters, distributor caps, distributor rotors, spark plug wires, spark plugs, engine bearings, head gaskets, etc... But not the timing or balance shaft belts, and not the water pump. I have seen too many problems with aftermarket and non-Porsche rebuilt water pumps.

Stu2j, why don't you grow up?