924Board.org

HappyPuppy · Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:35 am Post subject: Northstar V8 + 924

Guys, I have an idea. I've been thinking about ways to make the 924 a competitor the the Grassroots Motorsports $2004 Challenge. 115hp makes for a fine car to play with on the street, but I don't think will cut it in this event. Last year they had a team that ran a Miata w/ a 302 Ford, and another team had a mid engined, SHO-powered Festiva.

After some brainstorming, and a couple drinks, I started thinking about the Kennedy adaptor, and what it can fit. Then it dawned on me--the frickin' Northstar engine! I mean, it's a 32-valve, dual overhead cam v8 that pushes 300HP stock, right there at the limit of what the 924 tranny can take.

I did a little investigating, and found that it's a popular choice amond the sandrail guys--they've been mating it to VW and Porsche transaxles for a while now.

I figure it this way:

1977 1/2 924 $250
KEP adaptor for Audi 500 $625
'95+ Northstar engine $500-1000

I know that there are plenty of other things that I will need to make it work properly, but it's an idea.

I could use some healthy criticism on this

thanx
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My frequent desire to perform violent acts on select other drivers is not road rage; it is simply preemptory self-defense.

jamez · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 401 Location: Chehalis, Wa

Happy Puppy, geez a V8 in a 924 thats just crazy talk, you would have to be insane..
oh yeah, my V8 conversion is moving along fast now finally, the motor is installed in the car and linked to the driveline, I started it for the first time yesterday, '96 lt1 without exhaust sound awesome. If everything goes smooth from here on out (which hopefully it will) I will be able to have it back on the road in the few days I have off for christmas...

HappyPuppy · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 2:19 am Post subject:

Crazy is as crazy does...
anyway, what kit did you use to mate it to the bellhousing? Was it the Renegade one, the Kennedy adaptor, or something else? Are you running the stock 924 drivetrain, or have you switch out some parts?

I was planning to use the stock 924 4-speed drivetrain for this, for two reasons: (1) it gives me a cost advantage, which allows for upgrades in other areas, like brakes, and (2) it will also be a good real-world experiment on how much the 924 drivetrain can really handle. If it can last under 305 ponies, hen it's good enough for me.

thanx
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My frequent desire to perform violent acts on select other drivers is not road rage; it is simply preemptory self-defense.

jamez · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 401 Location: Chehalis, Wa

everything on my car was custom made by me. I am using a camaro bellhousing, with clutch slave mount cut off (i am using a hydraulic throwout bearing). The camaro bellhousing mounts to an adapterplate which I welded to the torque tube. I cut about 4 inches off the front of the torque tube (not the driveline, just the tube) and welded the adapter plate to the front of it, probably the most complicated part of the whole swap, because it has to be done exact, the tolerances for the shaft going into the clutch are really tight...

AppleBit · Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 1516 Location: Minneapolis, MN

so it's totally possible to mount a v8 with some adapter kit that is available for the 924? Renegade stopped this a while ago...
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Classic British Sports Car Restoration v6 + v8 Engine Conversion Swaps

Porsche 924 Wide Body LS1 Corvette 500 Horsepower Engine

Lizard · Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:25 am Post subject:

iirc the reason renagade stopped this was due to the NA having only the 20mm input shaft for the tranny, so they required having a tranny swap, you can call renegade hybreds and get the conversion kit as it would have the mating piece for the bellhousing, then you could always take the crossmember, and mounts from a 944 weld them into a 924 then there conversion kit would work
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3 928s,

HappyPuppy · Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:11 am Post subject:

jamez, I like your idea for two reasons: (1) you have actually done this, and it hasn't exploded yet, and (2) I could save some money by not having to buy the adaptor plate. Please tell me more. What parts did you have to use for the clutch, flywheel, pressure plate, etc? Do you have photos of your work? Could you come up with plans? If you want recognition for this, I'll put your name on my car. What about the radiator? What 924 drive train did you use? When you get it in drivable condition, is it holding up?

I am serious about entering my 924 in either the $2004 or $2005 challenge, and maybe some NASA or SCCA races after that. I can make anything I need, as long as I have the tools and some idea of what I need to make, preferably from a design.

thanx
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My frequent desire to perform violent acts on select other drivers is not road rage; it is simply preemptory self-defense.

jamez · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 401 Location: Chehalis, Wa

The Clutch plate I actually purchased from renegade, just because i knew it was gonna work, 1" 23 spline I believe. I looked it up and some mustangs used the same spline pattern as well as some dodges, so there are plenty of options with the clutch disc, you just gotta get the right diameter and spline pattern.. the flywheel is a 153 tooth externally balanced type which was fairly hard to find, because the stock LT1 flywheel wont work because it has too much offset... I don't remeber what pressure plate I used but thats easy, just get one thats made for that flywheel. stock camaro bellhousing ( with the clutch slave cylinder mount cut off of it). Hydraulic throwout bearing from quartermaster.

The torque tube and tranny are out of an '88 951. about four inches cut off the front of the torque tube and my custom made adapter plate welded to that (the adapter plate bolts to the bellhousing). a GM bearing retainer is bolted to the adapter plate. remeber this part has to be exact, if its not the clutch wont work, or it will chatter and wear out fast..
custom made motor mounts which bolt between the crossmember and frame rail..
Exhaust manifolds are from a '96 Z28 LT1, two passenger side manifolds. yes I have a passenger side manifold on the driver side, it works, it had to be done for clearance issues, I'm sure you could make other headers fit.
The radiator is one I ordered off the internet. look for small block chevy aluminum radiator, you can get them in practically any size you want..
I had to take the vacuum brake booster off, I will try to figure out some way to have power brakes later, but right now I'm not too worried about it, I have strong legs.

As far as plans go, I didn't write anything down, I was going to at first but then I realized there are a million little tiny things you gotta do, I could write a whole book about it. But the whole process is fairly simple, just make sure you understand exactly how the whole power train in an automobile, works, specifically in a Porsche and a Chevy. There are a lot of different parts that could be made to work, and nothing is going fit perfectly without being modified, so just start putting it together and work things out as you go along.. that what I did

I took a couple pictures of it today and plan on taking a ton of pictures when its complete, right now the wiring isn't bundled up good, the radiator is taken out so I had more room to do stuff, etc. etc.. etc.. But I don't have anywhere to put them on the internet, I could email them to someone if they want to do it.... later

HappyPuppy · Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:09 am Post subject:

Well, I guess that settles it...I'm just going to have to find a 944 or 951 drivetrain on the cheap. As for the rest, I think I understand what you're saying. This is going to be fun--I'm going to have to buy the engine, then work from there.

I've got another question for you, though--I didn't get much of an answer in the performance section. I guess crazy ideas need crazy people to figure them out. Anyway, a Quaife 944 diff costs a grand or so, we all know that. However you can pick up LS1 Camaro Zexel-Torsen diffs all day long for $50-$100. My question is, could we make it fit? I figure the camaro diff is probably bigger, which means we would have material to cut down to shape.

If I could figure out the machine work needed to make it fit, it would be a killer advantage in the $2004-2005 challenge--at the least. So...anyone got a 944 quaife diff hanging around they want to take measurements on?

thanx
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My frequent desire to perform violent acts on select other drivers is not road rage; it is simply preemptory self-defense.

jamez · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 401 Location: Chehalis, Wa

I doubt its possible to make a camaro diff fit. but it would be cool to put a corvette tranny on the car, the newer ones have the transmission in the rear. I don't know anything about them other than that though..

John Brown · Joined: 07 Nov 2002 Posts: 903 Location: Leesburg VA

You guys are awsome. I'm impressed.

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John
80 931 - #931 44Cup
99 Escalade - tows track cars
gone but not forgotten: original 924.org car - 82

plunger · Joined: 16 Dec 2002 Posts: 7 Location: Surrey

I love the idea of a Northstar engine in a 924/944. I think you will have interference between the crossmember and the deep skirt on the Northstar block. Something to think about. Good luck.
Rob

CBass · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 2807 Location: Vancouver, Canada

Not to mention you'll be hard pressed to find a Northstar V8 for less than $3000.
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'81 931 in various states of assembly

HappyPuppy · Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2004 2:32 pm Post subject:

Sorry guys, I've been away.

Anyway, I'm not so sure about the $3000 price tag, CBass--I've been watching them go on eBay for about $500-$1000, complete. I know LT-1 motors around here are $2k-$3k, and LS-1s are around $3k-$5k, but nobody seems to care about the Northstar around here. Maybe I should wait until one ends up in CMC, and yank the engine for $150--that would be nice!

BTW, is it just the input shaft on the transaxle that can't hold up, or is it the whole assembly? Depending on the answer, it would be easy to snag an Audi transaxle, if it can handle more. Just thinking things out, guys.

As soon as I get my '78 painted and back on the road, I will be yanking the transaxle out of my 4-speed '77 1/2 and will attempt to make miracles happen with a camaro Torsen diff--unless someone has a 4-speed 924 open diff I can play with?

cya l8tr
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My frequent desire to perform violent acts on select other drivers is not road rage; it is simply preemptory self-defense.