924Board.org

924 turbo · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 11:50 pm Post subject:

I solved my 924's power problem, and almost certainly at a lower cost than this swap, especially if you factor in the cost of the upgrade parts.

This isn't just about flights of fancy and spending time hobbying around with your car, it's also about spending money and getting results that satisfy you. After some kid spends $2500 putting a 123 horsepower 16v VW engine in, he's probably going to kick himself in the ass when he realizes that he's lowered his 0-60 times from 10 seconds to 9. When he realizes that getting it down to 7.5 seconds (the 0-60 time of a stock 931/924S, by the way) will cost him an extra couple of thousand, well, let's just say I wouldn't want to be around this kid if he had a gun collection.

Hafta-hafta-hafta have a 924, but you also want a pretty zippy car?

924 turbo.
924S.

I've stated my case.
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Jon Furst

Minus000 · Joined: 29 May 2003 Posts: 363 Location: Sidney, B.C.

Im with you there. I like my car (1978 924) and im willing to invest money into repairing and updating some of its features but it will not compete with most other sports cars for power. I am content with its performance for now but hopefully in my future (and after travelling) I will be able to own a 944turbo or 928.

78porsche924 · Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:50 am Post subject:

I have a bae turbo kit in mine. It will definantly destroy a 924 with your engine swap in acceleration and power(well once i fix the fuel system). And guess what, it is a hell of a lot cheaper then doing your swap. Not to mention it keeps the weight ratio closer to stock to keep the handling. And no, we are not missing the point, you are. You are throwing away money to do something complicated when you can do something a lot easier and cheaper. Plus when you go to do the swap see how many surprises you get.
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90 944 S2
78 924 NA <---now sold and killed by new owner
snailshell trans
Bae turbo kit
to check out my 944 S2 http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=388139

81turbo · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 1065 Location: Oakland, CA

My ideal swap would be to install a larger wheel and get a guinea pig to power my car. My hamster is getting kind of old and has quite a few miles on it. If I could fabricate a larger wheel the guinea pig would be a huge power increase for only pennies more in food a day. What do you guys think?

coconutcowboy · Joined: 27 May 2003 Posts: 191 Location: Milner, Ga

I like the guinea pig idea. ecologicaly sound.

Sean Ross
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84 944 2.5l NA for sale.

80 924 w/ turbo nose/ m471 option/ ac and Pasha Interior. w/ bursch header and exhaust, stage 2 cam, Audi wur and tb

ricer's shall kneel before the mighty Porsche or unforgivable harm shall befall their engine blocks.

coconutcowboy · Joined: 27 May 2003 Posts: 191 Location: Milner, Ga

you guys have valid points but I have an empty shell to play with.

picked up an audi rabbit style 2 litre short block with oil pan that needs new rings and bearings for some of my chevy parts.

total invested ($100 usd)

no ridge detected in cylinders and honing pattern still vivible on cylinder walls. crank journals look ok. came with flywheel and starter.

clean ,hone, and line bore and debur block ($125 usd)

starter rebuild (local shop) ($35 usd)

turn and lighten flywheel ($75usd)

polish crank and basic lighten and balance ($150 usd)

rods rebushed, resized lightened and polished and balance ($150 usd) with new bolts.

the 16 valve head and wiring harness and DME ordered from same place and will be ready to pick up friday. used the parts locater service. part coming from out of state. trading a 3.1 v6 for it and the exhaust., intake, and fuel system plumbing for front and under rear of car. also includes all uncut coolant / heater hoses.

total invested in v6 / cost of head. ($300 usd.)

6 angle valve job and basic porting on head intake and exhaust manifolds ($225 usd)

oil pan can be made from existing pan flange and sheetmetal welded to shape to clear crossmember and steering . also baffling for pan installed at this time.

clutch assembly from an audi 4000 with 1.8 motor mounted to an audi style transaxle like the ones we use ($200 usd new if parts work out right)

plus time to fab the mounts (should be rather easy if the audi 4000 I looked at is any hint)

pistons I havn't priced yet as I havn't decided to go N/A or try to use the turbo from my dodge spirit.

money to lay out so far is $1380 for a rebuild sans pistons, rings and cams/ followers. havn't decided on NA or turbo.

the price is $200 less total if I let them tear down the engine and rebuild it into a longblock. the prices they give me were for individual jobs on the motor and had alot of duplicate labor involved.

will post rest of figures as i research it.

Sean Ross
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84 944 2.5l NA for sale.

80 924 w/ turbo nose/ m471 option/ ac and Pasha Interior. w/ bursch header and exhaust, stage 2 cam, Audi wur and tb

ricer's shall kneel before the mighty Porsche or unforgivable harm shall befall their engine blocks.

Richard · Joined: 04 Nov 2002 Posts: 617 Location: Pacific N.W.

I don't know what the problem is here? As long as cowboy knows this is not an economic decision. What ever happened to passion, hobby, and experimentation? He asked our opinion, and it's ok to think it's dumb, but some guys are unusually cruel.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Any jerk can buy horsepower. It takes no skill, research, patience, machineing, welding, fabricating and talent. Some people find joy and value in this pursuit. The satisfaction of conceiving and engineering a project and seeing it to completion is worth more to some than going out and buying a finished project.

Has anyone out there ever baked bread or raised vegtables? You could go to the store and get the product cheaper, but guess what, it's rewarding to do it yourself.

I say go for it, maybe it will be a hot ticket.

dgz924s · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 592 Location: Kansas

After all the cash used for the conversion and you stated that it is a cheaper motor to maintain, I fail to see any savings. The extra cash to convert is going to be damn close to any stock maintenance cost. That and VW parts are not much cheaper! IMHO.. These guys are not missing the point they are being PRACTICLE!! D

Porscheaddiction · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 2:30 am Post subject:

I see where he is going with this... I do respect everyones opinions, However its his car. So what if he is going to spend alot of money on it.
After its complete there would be awhole aftermarket world to explore with. What do we have for our stock 924 na's..not much. It might be cheaper to maintain and it may not be only time will tell if he chooses to go ahead with this conversion. Practicle?? who cares it looks like he doesn't. Do you think building a kit car is practicle? or what about taking an old chev or ford and fabricating, welding cutting till you get something that looks like you would find in hot rod magazine is that practicle?(their owners sure do) but hey they could have bought a Porsche or a Ferrari and beable to maintain them for the prices some these guys put into those types of cars,)
Practicality no.......its a hobby enjoy it how you see fit.
I'm off the podium now.
Chris.

dgz924s · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 592 Location: Kansas

Hey if the guy wants to mount his GF in the engine bay I don't give rats ass!!! The whole point is and has been beaten to death "why go through the cash and elbows grease to gain HP when it is readily available in other forms of Porsche's. That is the practicle part! Most of these people on here are not skilled enough to take on such a dynamic conversion or have the tools and space to do it! If one has the stuff to do it GREAT! Do it and then show the proof! All we see is an engine and no sign of what it is in! Out of all the talk on this similiar issue I and others will attest "show us the results" We rarely do see the proof. Not to say it hasn't been done sucessfully because it has but at what cost or energy is the main negative! You do this conversion and show me where it saves money!!! That was what the posters words were"save money and have parts available" nothing about how much power, etc. Going with that mindset is not -practicle! D

CBass · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 2807 Location: Vancouver, Canada

Well, if you want to go for bang for buck, Porsche is definately not the way to go. Nobody here bought a 924 because they want it to haul ass in a straight line for cheap.

If you want fast and cheap, you can't beat Nissan engines. For around $1000, you can pick up a CA18DET, or an SR20DET, WITH a tranny that you can sell to compensate for the extra cost. A 924 has very little engine wiring as it is, so it wouldn't be terribly difficult to do the wiring. Both engines have very strong internals, and need only a boost controller and decent exhaust to make over 200hp...

Cheaper than buying a 931, IMO...

Joes924Racer · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:34 am Post subject:

I dont know you can up the cp then
really what you do is stroke it then maybe go
with efi or a turbo with a big intercooler or super charger
if your gonna mess around why not just stick a v-8 in there..Thats not what these cars are about and Ill never go down the road like that. You have the rods..now you want the 16 valve head..hmmm I dont know.
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1979 porsche 924 Na
1980 porsche Turbo 931GT Replica
Have u ever driven a turbo.

Min · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 5:01 am Post subject:

as lizard has proven to me ... getting a "better" porsche would be a bad idea were I live ... 3200 dollars for insurance per year ... I pay 940 right now for my 924 ... thats a 2260 dollar a year difference ... seems that this "conversion" would pay itself off pretty quickly in my situation ... not that i have any intention of doing this. just making a point.

Min

simsport · Joined: 06 Nov 2002 Posts: 573 Location: UK Warrington

Seems a lot of people have got hot under the collar on this one.
For me its simple. The car either is, or is not a 924.

If you fit an engine of another make it is something else. If you modifiy it a lot (as I have done) but still use the same engine as a base then I reckon you can get away with calling it a 924. But not with a Sirroco engine!(or indeed a chevy)

Dont get me wrong that vw engine is great and does have a lot of tuning gear available . Cost is less of a factor when an enthusiast wants to prove he/she can make something work. Also I can understand the increased performance being a real draw.

However if your aim is to make a 'better 924' than I feel it is a lost cause for the reasons stated above. What you should have is a great car that goes well, is different and pleases you. If you do then well done and be happy.

Cheers
Simon

As long as you dont sell your own idea as the only way to go or to suggest that those who stick with the old items are in some way fools.

Equaly those of us who do stick with the old kit should not imagine we have the right to say what others can or can not do with their car. That is free choice That is always a sure fire way to upset people and lose you support.

The 924 is no fireball but then it is an old car and was comparable with the sirrocco whenit came out so no big clash there.
The old 924 engine is great because it is sound, solid and reliable and added to that it runs for many miles.

In my view the 924 is to be seen as the MGB. That was not a great car if performance or handling was your goal, but it was a great car nonetheless. The 924 handles but is not hugely fast, so what, it wasnt intended to be, a bit like the MX5.

So, if you want lots of go from your 924 then do what I or others have done ie tune the car, even fit another engine from the same family line (924T,924s etc) b, or tune your car, or fit another
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Blown is always best!

chriso · Joined: 23 Dec 2002 Posts: 36 Location: Lincoln Nebraska

Why does everyone want to shoot holes through this engine swap? Its in the perfomance upgrade area not the return your car to stock area, No one is holding a gun to your head, and its a valid swap with a more productive mill.
The new dyno shop here just ran a scirrocco with a 2.0 and in fairly stock form (chip, intake, exhaust) was pushing 135hp at the wheels. I'll keep you informed- the guy just wanted a baseline before he started the real modifications(cams, electronics, head, pistons, injectors and -of course- turbo and intercooler). He is shooting for 280hp and driveability.
Yes- He is going to spend alot of money to do this.
And yes he will have alot of power in a vw.
But thats the beauty of a sleeper -isn't it?
He is building a promotional car for his company -and he gets to race it on his company's dime. I'm jealous.

By the way how much would you spend getting 280hp out of a 924?
Also- Have you noticed how many magazines there are devoted to beefing up VWs? I mean in depth-this is how to do it magazines.
and on the Porsche upgrades you get the "280 hp in a 924 don't bother buy a carrera and save yourself the pain."

Well sorry for wasting your time
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86 924S + 86 944T = one big smile
There is no quick fix or cheap power, not in the Porsche world so learn to drive your car.