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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1798
Location: Chicago-ish
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 Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| kondzi wrote: | You will see how different it feels when looking from the outside at the mold. I was expecting something different with mine  |
Can't wait ...but it was somehow still liquid? Mixed with a scale per instructions too. It's old silicon so lets see how it looks today. I cleaned it up and added hardener to the remaining uncured batch I had. Otherwise I'll have to order new
This whole thing is really an exercise in patience 
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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1798
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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Man that's funny, Dan even had the notion back in 2010 in the other resurrected thread happening now. That is how I see it too with my data
https://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31493
| Quote: | PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:41 am Post subject: Reply with quote
If it's got an engine wrote:
turbo head flows better than the NA head
Largely a myth.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1798
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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Round 3 with a new platinum cured silicon should be out today. I don't think I like the translucent color as much with the new one but I had to try. Maybe it can be painted. Looks like there was 'cure inhibition' with tin cured version which supposedly is hard to do (contamination). In the mean time the lower half of the mold did come out clean and cured so we have something to see! I was surprised really with how the short side looks with how much has been ground out of this port. The short side had more bubbles.
You can also see the nice seat angles leading up to the valve. Deciding where to go from here. Certainly a different style of port when compared to the 964 for example. If it came from higher up, like whats been taked about in the past with less of a bend ( Joakim, etc. ), it would be really nice.
So this is the lighter colored 'tin' based cure type below. I like this color or blue like Kondzi.
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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1798
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2023 1:00 am Post subject: |
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What I thought I was doing wasn't being done enough because its actually hard to get in there with the burr tools. You get afraid you are taking too much with all the chips piling up too
Lay back the port floor to start the separation earlier so it can reattach where the air is accelerating again like it should at the seat. See red line
Hard to freehand draw with mouse but you should get the idea
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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1798
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2023 9:15 am Post subject: |
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Much better. Its drooping down around 1mm at the intake side in this pic from its own weight. Pretty good idea now how I will proceed from here.
_________________
1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1798
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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It worked better than I expected given I had no time yesterday. Quick, no prep, scan gave me 95% of the port in a clean mesh. Just a small patch below the short side radius was screwy. I was even able to place it in an ancient head scan and fit it like it was done yesterday (Not shown). This will give me a nice side job to convert to a surface for trial purposes. On the tech side of this I get hard data, dimension wise and port volume. Porting to continue! This gave me the guideline I needed to see
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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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morghen
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 9095
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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So cool to have new technology at hand. Cant wait to get my 3D scanner.
Until now i used the one at work, but got one for personal projects use as well.
Should make developing things a lot faster.
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Supercharger and EFI kits
https://www.the924.com |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1798
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| morghen wrote: | So cool to have new technology at hand. Cant wait to get my 3D scanner.
Until now i used the one at work, but got one for personal projects use as well.
Should make developing things a lot faster. |
It really does and even the cheaper units work amazing with some patience. The newer ones just work better period!
The second part is more for anyone interested in scanning. You need the right CAD software. Just as long as it has the ability to work with a mesh. For the guys that don't have access to any kind of processing add-on or software it can be no fun. I didn't at the start, like with the earliest days of the billet turbo mount, and just manually built surfaces off the mesh by eye. Worked amazingly well back then.
You have CATIA I think and super obvious skills already. I have been amazed at what you have been modeling with your project SC. That is artwork by itself!
Edit: Should be flowing some changes today for some grinding and polishing I did last night
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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1798
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 9:56 am Post subject: |
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I can already tell you I will either need to figure out another stock location intake or go front mount one day with another intake
Without the intake at .4" lift, I was not yet turbulent and @ 178cfm! The not yet turbulent part is the part that should jump out at you.
This falls to 172 cfm at .5" of lift and its super clear to me its an attachment issue. I barely put the flow ball near the port opening and I see 190+.
This means the little diversion of doing the silicon mold told me the short turn radius needed help. I really thought I had done a decent job until I saw the mold.
Intake installed has me at 159 @ .4" lift and 170 @ .5" lift
Simply amazing how the old -10cfm is growing now with intake installed -19cfm at .4" Pure sadness 
Still though not bad since I am at 160 ish
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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1798
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 11:49 am Post subject: |
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graphing makes things more clear and bizarre with how the Intake affects things. That pink unnamed line is a previous no intake flow line
My previous 'ported with Intake' from 6-7 weeks ago is basically identical to today with a bunch of short side radius re-work  The blue and light orange are on top of one another
The 'no intake' starts the same and then gets crushed when turbulence hits. Otherwise its 190+ (not shown). The port wants to flow after .350" but intake isn't helping
"With Intake" is just so weird...so weird
Quick comment now that I just posted it. Its clear I am no longer porting for flow but to stop turbulence which gives me back lost flow.
_________________
1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1798
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 6:32 am Post subject: |
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Making good progress and I feel the end coming. With and without intake I got some gains from .2 of lift all the way up to max lift. Turbulent point is now at .43 to .44 and I am in the 180's cfm wise
Get anywhere near the opening with flow ball and flow reattaches ..196 cfm was then seen. Remember how I had to form all kinds of clay before to reach such a number? Turbulent max lift number was higher as well even though still lower than .4" of lift
Even with intake in gained. Swapping intake to cylinder four runner resulted in 175+ while I was at 173 at cylinder 2 which I am currently porting
Warming up the CAM software soon. Will be time to move on with the head but goal of 'no turbulent' behavior still remains. Will work it a bit more
Finally got rid of clay at opening for no intake testing. Made a more consistent 3d print. Its been ported for this head so I can print more for stock testing.
 [/url]
_________________
1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1798
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 7:02 am Post subject: |
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Today's results got a bit more interesting. In the last 24 hours I wondered about intake wall friction and porting or rather smoothing the intake casting
Just remember I don't perceive a difference in intakes between S1 and S2
Worked on the head some more, set it up, and took flow results with no Intake, which resulted in a plateauing of the max value from .4 to .5 lift . Meaning, even after going turbulent it was not so bad as previous drop. Nice! Getting somewhere
The original ported CS intake was installed which essentially works with my port job here due to previous gasket matching by the other porter. This intake is smoother for a good portion near the port. Even has the throttle body
Well crack that throttle and it hits almost 176 which is a gain from 171 stock intake. That rear cylinder 4 Intake runner would be at 180+ with this port
_________________
1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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gegge
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 1124
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Probably the most interesting thread for the last ten years. Thank you, sir!
IIRC my head flowed 173.5 cfm @ 0.55 but I de-tuned it later with a cam with 0.53 lift. Erland ported the intake runners a lot due to the restrictions you are mentioning. I built a better looking inlet, more like GTR - based on a CIS Ford Escort RS1600 (XR3i without the "Ford" logo). The inlet c/c match, good looking trumpets and I belive it had 160hp i rally tuning. It did collide with the alternator though...
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Carl Fredrik Torkildsen
924 turbo -81 Carrera GT RESTOMOD
924 turbo -80 Dolomite De Luxe
924 -85 DP kit, BBS RS, M030 and tuned engine
924s -86 Black on black turbo with Fuchs |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1798
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| gegge wrote: | Probably the most interesting thread for the last ten years. Thank you, sir!
IIRC my head flowed 173.5 cfm @ 0.55 but I de-tuned it later with a cam with 0.53 lift. Erland ported the intake runners a lot due to the restrictions you are mentioning. I built a better looking inlet, more like GTR - based on a CIS Ford Escort RS1600 (XR3i without the "Ford" logo). The inlet c/c match, good looking trumpets and I belive it had 160hp i rally tuning. It did collide with the alternator though... |
Thank you Gegge! Your experience, along with Erland, has been my inspiration through all of this! I just didn't realize at first that Erland was your porter even though you mentioned it somewhere in an old thread. You were the first to mention an offset valve concept
I really think we both are at this "wall" limit of 170+ cfm with intake and it seems so much harder to get anything higher. I am willing to bet your Intake helped and your numbers show what I think an NA is capable of with a nice set of heads. I have been so pleased to see how older numbers match what I have experienced. A few cfm up or down doesn't matter when comparing since climate conditions are always there. The results are the same which is really neat
My current restriction is the TMIC so I have to use the intake for now but the future might be a front mount IC after this summer. This would allow me to make a major intake change like yours.
Really glad you and others are following along. I wanted to have a thread were I just laid it all out there for a change (good and bad thinking). This way I get everyone's input and everyone gets what I hope is valuable information. Hope to have these pictures up for a long time too
Every now and then I watch your test drive video just to get the blood flowing to keep going
_________________
1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1798
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:38 am Post subject: |
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To get an idea. Here is the original CS ported S2 full intake rigged up to the head in testing. Here is some useless info. The port flows 160 from all the other open intake ports then I open the throttle body to get the 175+ value during yesterday's test
_________________
1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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