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anthonimartini
Joined: 17 Feb 2020
Posts: 240
Location: portland oregon
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 Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:02 am Post subject: valve adjusters? |
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anybody ever swap out the valve adjuster screws without removing the cam? my patience is at about zero for this car now as i try to adjust in my valves while being rained on. love the portland winters...
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peterld
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 984
Location: Noosa Heads QLD Australia
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:09 am Post subject: |
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Tried......unsuccessfully. Wish I could.
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anthonimartini
Joined: 17 Feb 2020
Posts: 240
Location: portland oregon
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:15 am Post subject: |
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yeah i figured out pretty quickly that its not really possible, after about 6 hours of messing around with a few very stubborn lifters, having the cam out a few times and belt sanding a couple 1 mark screws i managed to get all the valves within spec and the adjusters right in the happy zone of thread engagement. i love these cars but i absolutely hate the lifters in these things. being super expensive, wearing out, and being very finicky with adjustments after valve jobs. im starting to like the m44 engines more and more.
anyways my 931 d prod style build is nearing completion! just gotta sort out the header and build a exhaust/tune the k jet.
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ive saved alot of 924's
current:
79 MochaSchwartz 931
83 944
87 924S
Instagram @anthoni.jpeg
formerly known as turbellion, lost password. |
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safe
Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 714
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Why do you need to replace the adjuster screws?
As for lifters, just replace them with solid lifters an lash caps.
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/Magnus, Stockholm Sweden
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Porsche 924 -79 NA, EFI and Turbo.
Porsche 931 -79
Porsche 911 -77, 3.2 Targa
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peterld
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 984
Location: Noosa Heads QLD Australia
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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Safe........can you direct me to somewhere I can see pictures of what you are describing.
Many have spoken about solid lifters on this forum, but I've never seen the operation.
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safe
Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 714
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| peterld wrote: | Safe........can you direct me to somewhere I can see pictures of what you are describing.
Many have spoken about solid lifters on this forum, but I've never seen the operation. |
Not sure this link works.
But there is basically a bucket, much like the original, on the inside there is a post where put a cap on to set the desired lash. A bit more work to get it right, some careful measurements required. Lighter and less money than new adjustable from Porsche.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/2M7hBmpMGsNGQEP6A
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/Magnus, Stockholm Sweden
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Porsche 924 -79 NA, EFI and Turbo.
Porsche 931 -79
Porsche 911 -77, 3.2 Targa
Porsche 911 -69, 3.6, Coupe |
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MikeJinCO
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 1246
Location: Maysville, Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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I use 9mm valve stem lash caps from Alfa, the old type 105 motor, 1300cc. Not expensive and readily available at least here in US. They come in a wide range of thicknesses. My last set of ACM cam followers was about $120. They are also about 30 gm lighter than the stock ones. That is a healthy reduction in valve train weight.
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Mike
'67 MG Midget Dp
'71 Ocelot Dsr Kawasaki 1000(under rebuild) |
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safe
Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 714
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| MikeJinCO wrote: | | I use 9mm valve stem lash caps from Alfa, the old type 105 motor, 1300cc. Not expensive and readily available at least here in US. They come in a wide range of thicknesses. My last set of ACM cam followers was about $120. They are also about 30 gm lighter than the stock ones. That is a healthy reduction in valve train weight. |
The post in the lifter is 8mm, so you can use the much more common (and lighter) 8mm lash caps on the post instead of the valve. 
Nice to have more options at least.
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/Magnus, Stockholm Sweden
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Porsche 924 -79 NA, EFI and Turbo.
Porsche 931 -79
Porsche 911 -77, 3.2 Targa
Porsche 911 -69, 3.6, Coupe |
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MikeJinCO
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 1246
Location: Maysville, Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:38 am Post subject: |
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I agree,on my head with an under size reground cam I put Manley .080"shims on the pin before using the Alfa 9mm shims on the valve. I could have used the 8mm Alfa shims on the pin but wanted to stay more in the thinner to middle of Alfa's range of thicknesses. Where do I find 8mm shims that come in variable sizes besides the later Alfa's or various motorcycles I haven't investigated yet? Surface grinding shims or dismantling the head to grind the valve stems is much more expensive than a $6 shim.
The reduced valve train weight in this motor is not a factor as I've got 40 year old connecting rod bolts so the rpm is limited to 6000. This last weekend I ran into that rev limiter about 150 times.
When I did a valve adjustment in the car, buying 2 new shims and shuffling 4 others around I adjusted 6 of the valves.
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Mike
'67 MG Midget Dp
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safe
Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 714
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| MikeJinCO wrote: | I agree,on my head with an under size reground cam I put Manley .080"shims on the pin before using the Alfa 9mm shims on the valve. I could have used the 8mm Alfa shims on the pin but wanted to stay more in the thinner to middle of Alfa's range of thicknesses. Where do I find 8mm shims that come in variable sizes besides the later Alfa's or various motorcycles I haven't investigated yet? Surface grinding shims or dismantling the head to grind the valve stems is much more expensive than a $6 shim.
The reduced valve train weight in this motor is not a factor as I've got 40 year old connecting rod bolts so the rpm is limited to 6000. This last weekend I ran into that rev limiter about 150 times.
When I did a valve adjustment in the car, buying 2 new shims and shuffling 4 others around I adjusted 6 of the valves. |
I got the 8mm lashcaps from ACM when I got the lifters. 2.5mm was a good starting point, I used 2.4, 2.5, 2.6 if I remember correctly, but thasa just for me, my seats has been cut by an unknown amount.
Only 6000? I thought the redline was at 6500, my buddy keeps ripping his to almost 7000.
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/Magnus, Stockholm Sweden
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Porsche 924 -79 NA, EFI and Turbo.
Porsche 931 -79
Porsche 911 -77, 3.2 Targa
Porsche 911 -69, 3.6, Coupe |
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MikeJinCO
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 1246
Location: Maysville, Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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I'll stick with Alfa, they have both 8mm and 8mm and only about 150 miles away.
According to ARP the problem with 8740(12.9) rod bolts is fatigue failures not bolt strength. With my 40 year old bolts I'll stick with the conservative 6000 rpm limit. But new motor, new ARP bolts, longer duration cam and compression, I'll go higher.
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Mike
'67 MG Midget Dp
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peterld
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 984
Location: Noosa Heads QLD Australia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, now I see. Thanks for that.
However, what is the advantage, apart from marginally lighter weight?
You still have to remove the cam to install and with no adjustment, correct measurement is absolutely critical.
Is there something I'm missing?
I get that lighter is better, but unless there was a National championship at stake?
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safe
Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 714
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| peterld wrote: | Ok, now I see. Thanks for that.
However, what is the advantage, apart from marginally lighter weight?
You still have to remove the cam to install and with no adjustment, correct measurement is absolutely critical.
Is there something I'm missing?
I get that lighter is better, but unless there was a National championship at stake? |
A non worn lifter is essential for not wearing down a cam shaft, new cam goes hand in hand with new lifters and never swap around lifters. Never mix used part or used and new without a refurbish.
A new adjustable is 150 euros vs a solid for ~10 euro. It is a process to adjust them, but its not that often you need to, you should check regularly but adjusting isn't needed that often.
Its hardened surfaces that should not wear much.
So apart from weight, its a price thing
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/Magnus, Stockholm Sweden
=======================
Porsche 924 -79 NA, EFI and Turbo.
Porsche 931 -79
Porsche 911 -77, 3.2 Targa
Porsche 911 -69, 3.6, Coupe |
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peterld
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 984
Location: Noosa Heads QLD Australia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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Wow Safe......that is a HUGE price difference. I get it!
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