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Fasteddie313
Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2595
Location: MI
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 Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| morghen wrote: | It is most rewarding to see people pick up your ideas or work and improve them or build them further or adapt them to something else.
Its the only way real progress is made, bouncing ideas like this.
I would like this supercharger kit to be about the 924 and the people who love and enjoy these cars.
I had thoughts about a 931 application as well, may look into it later on as it could turn out into something pretty crazy with a big turbo to do the high end rpm work.
As for a place to plumb sensors and stuff, yeah i’m thinking about whats the best way for the processes and materials involved in this project.
The idea i'm toying with is to flatten an area on one of the charge pipes so that i can glue and bolt a thick, removable Aluminium plate there that people can drill and thread as they need and want.
The very first upgrade however will be a bolt on intercooler setup with only one part replaced from the current kit.
In regards to what is different on this kit compared to the prototype i used last year.
The concept is identical, some improvements to the brackets, some production and process improvements here and there.
Sealing between parts is more simple and hopefully better...also the 3D printed parts routing is optimized, the parts themselves are optimized for printing, assembly, flow and hopefully strength 
The most important aspect is the use of the external blow off valve driven by boost rather than by vacuum. This allows for better fueling and less stress on the 3d printed parts.
Also, by using the bov this way results in a smoother driving experience compared to using no bov...and a cool noise from time to time
Another thing i want to try is to not reinforce the inlet parts at all, just thick coat them in epoxy. This should allow for a bit faster production if its proven that the reinforcement is not necessary for the inlet parts.
The main reason for reinforcing those was to overcome the printing inconsistencies i saw last year, but i changed materials and tooling and that aspect improved to what i think is sufficient to not wrap the supercharger inlet in any fibers.
My first charger was a JCW charger, its exactly the same thing with the normal charger, it just has a smaller pulley for more boost.
I was planning to run more boost on my car but i want to try to intercool it first and see the difference.
If it is a situation similar to the 931 where simply adding an intercooler frees up more power then the current boost levels may be enough.
My goal is to find the simplest and most robust thing for the most amount of fun...not the most amount of power.
I am reluctant to running more boost for several reasons...and i will list them here:
-NA CIS may not be able to keep up without additional mods.
-3D printed parts may not live that long with extra heat and extra pressure..or they may not even work at all...requiring more expensive materials perhaps.
-924 NA engines are 9.3:1 CR and most people will just strap the charger on to an old NA headgasket and that may result in more 924s being killed and parted...the main idea behind this kit is to make the 924 relevant again in terms of fun and every day driving experience. |
I understand where you are coming from in wanting this kit to be just a fun moderate upgrade that the majority of less that super technical 924 owners can easily handle and that the majority of old 924 engines themselves can easily handle, and be very reliable, as opposed to seeking the limits of all out performance..
I like this approach quite a lot as it really could put the poor old 924 back on the map if it could truly be said something like “Yea they are old and slow relative to most modern cars, but THIS product has come out that can easily, cheaply, and reliably bring the 924 up to modern performance levels to compete more on the level with modern offerings such as the Miata and BRZ.”
If it proves popular and reliable enough it could bring a whole new image to the 924, have it considered differently in these times, and make it a more relevant sport car option..
Maybe we aren’t looking at a whole lot of peak power here, but aside from just under redline, this will likely bring the area under the curve up a LOT giving it a lot more pep throughout the lower and midrange area of the powerband..
931s for example, in my experience, are just about dog slow until about 3000rpm, making their power delivery quite impractical for normal driving..
And with added boost, I wouldn’t say it makes them any more practical, if not possibly even less practical, and I think one could consider their power delivery even possibly dangerous to the average commuter/driver that isn’t accustomed to such dynamic changes in power delivery..
They get far to easy to spin/harder to control in situations such as jumping into traffic, or accelerating in the wet..
This supercharger will give a much more practical and predictable performance boost much better for the less enthusiast minded driving types..
My girlfriend for example is driving a manual full time now in a Subaru, and I have no problems letting her drive my m3, even alone..
But to turn her loose in my brown car, even at only like 15psi, I’m pretty sure she is not ready for that..
These 931s, even the 41 with its rebuilt g31, is still a difficult car to drive, and you really have to constantly think mechanically to drive them, such as understanding and constantly thinking about rev matching, and knowing rpm to predict power delivery..
I love it, but I’ll say that it probably really is NOT for everyone..
I think many would prefer something much easier and more predictable, not even getting into the no power steering thing, LOL..
This supercharger setup I think will give a much more practical experience..
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morghen
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 9095
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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That pretty much sums it up! Very well written!
I may steal some words from you when i'll make the "why do this to your 924" video.
Now all i have to do is make sure that stuff keeps its promise to hold on tight and makes the driver smile for a long time.
While i wait for the fiberglass mold for the airbox to be re-made, i'm working on the AFR gauge install and i swapped over this beautiful and rare set of S1 931 green dials. They remind me of my lovely and ratty 931.
I also swapped in that brown dials surround, if i'm not mistake that was a 944 only option...most brown dash 924s i've seen have the black one.
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Cedric
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2801
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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Green dials are useless from a practical standpoint, but they are by far the coolest! Aren't you going to put the rev counter in the middle?
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1980 924 Turbo
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Gaddyman19
Joined: 01 Jun 2021
Posts: 20
Location: Warrenton, Missouri 63383
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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I’m looking forward to this being released! Put me on that purchase list! 
I had green dials in my First car so I’m somewhat nostalgic towards them, when I redid the dash lights on my 924 I put in some green LEDS and they look awesome.
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chuck21401
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 606
Location: Annapolis, MD
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| morghen wrote: |
I also swapped in that brown dials surround, if i'm not mistake that was a 944 only option...most brown dash 924s i've seen have the black one.
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I always wondered about that. Will go looking for one of those to match my brown dash.
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1981 Porsche 931 w/S1 engine & euro g31 transaxle. Water-cooled intercooler |
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Fasteddie313
Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2595
Location: MI
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:37 am Post subject: |
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I secretly very much like the yellow 944 dials..
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morghen
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 9095
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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They are cool to look at, but the silver color on the shrouds does not work very well in my opinion.
supercharger-wise: fiberglass guy is not very reliable in terms of delivery time, i'm worried that if i set about building a few sets he will mess things up. I'll try to find another way if possible.
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1798
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| Cedric wrote: | | Green dials are useless from a practical standpoint, but they are by far the coolest! Aren't you going to put the rev counter in the middle? |
Cedric, you should see US green speedometer. talk about useless
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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Cedric
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
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Location: Sweden
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morghen
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 9095
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 6:06 am Post subject: |
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Were all cars like that back then or just the 924 got the extra punishment?
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jacobroufa
Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 531
Location: Belvidere, IL
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Lau Christophersen
Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 123
Location: Denmark/Copenhagen
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:53 am Post subject: |
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Happy to see you can use the green dials I send for you 
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76 924 (PARTS)
77 924 (PARTS)
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77 928
79 931
79 931(PARTS).
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morghen
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 9095
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Lau Christophersen wrote: | | Happy to see you can use the green dials I send for you |
Cheers for that, and for the very very good price!
It took me a good while to put them on, but now they are on and i'm very happy to report that they all work great.
Unfortunately i'm still missing the airbox floor fiberglass mold and part...so i cant drive the car on the road yet.
Fiberglass supplier promissed delivery this weekend so next week i should be able to start driving the car.
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morghen
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 9095
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:45 am Post subject: |
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Allright, got the fiberglass airbox patch today, test fitted it and it seems to work fine.
I'll modify another airbox in the weekend to get a better feeling on if i have to improve something or not but i'm happy with what i have for now.
Car started and idled perfectly right away but i didnt drive it...i forgot to tighten the supercharger pulley bolt...i need to impact wrench tighten that one i think...and i may have to take the whole thing off for that...i'll see if i can fit an impact wrench there somehow.
Also, i'm almost done with the AFR gauge installation as well and i want to drive the car with that thing on from now on.
Planning to wrap up the AFR installation and take the car out for a drive tomorrow.
In the meantime i recorded some more footage for the how2 video and i have a final draft put together. This may stay as final if its clear enough.
I need some feedback on the assembly itself as well as for the video...or on anything related to the project for that matter.
Here is the link to the complete how2 video, its long...over an hour...so thanks in advance
It pretty much contains the old one i posted a while ago, but has some stuff spliced in here and there and it also continues from where the first one left off and finishes the instalation.
https://youtu.be/DizZsXy0SDU
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jacobroufa
Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 531
Location: Belvidere, IL
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