924Board.org

[ditch68]

Just wondering what your thoughts collectively on the value (versus build cost, which can be quite different) of a decent CGT clone.

Say I were to decide I would prefer one over my 951, what sort of price differential would I be facing?

I have been kicking the idea around, now that I have a 924 and find I really like it, and could see myselfhaving my track/weekend/fun car just as easily be a CGT clone as the 944 turbo.

Maintenance cost comparisons, build quality, G31 issues, I would want to consider everything.

Now, I do understand a clone could be anything from a 924s with fiberglass panels, all the way up to a 931 built to a high degree of historical accuracy even incorporating real 937 parts.

Id lean closer to the latter, but cost would be the deciding factor. I figure my 951 has about $10k in it, but I only ever expect it will fetch $8k realistically.

Just dreaming, but why not dream.

Or maybe I should just be rational and drive the 951 for fun. And fun it is.

Jeff
_________________
Current:
1979 924, all stock.
1988 951 all track modded out and angry.

Past: 1986 951, 1988 924S, 1965 912 with '69 911T engine.

[flosho]

A CGT clone is probably worth 5-8k depending on the quality. If it has factory TMIC it would be on the higher side, if it's just n/a then significantly less.


Probably in most cases, building a CGT clone you will be into it for more than its really worth.
_________________
[This Space For Rent]

[morghen]

[v8carreragts]

Building a clone is fun but if you go into it thinking it is going to be valued based on what you put into it you will be disappointed.

You will spend far more than you will ever get building it. This goes for just about any car. Even if you were going to restore a muscle car.

Just for instance, a few years ago I found a vendor that had had NOS GT; GTS and GTR ring and pinions. He wanted 3500 euros each. That is just for a gearset. I paid $175 for my GT front bumper rubbers a few years ago.

With the prices of the real parts you would be cheaper buying a read GT.

But as far as I am concerned the fun is in building it myself. I haven't built anything with the idea of breaking even or making money on it. Of course there can always be an exception but I wouldn't count on it.
_________________
84 944--924 Carrera GTS clone w/520HP Chevy 302 V8--RUNNING!
2015 AUDI Q7
2013 Dodge Charger R/T AWD HEMI
2013 Chevy Cruze

[ditch68]

I see. Well, I already fully understand the "you'll never get out what you put in it" problem, believe me.

I'm probably better off with the 951 for a lot of reasons.

937 "sexy" in itself likely cant trump all that unless it was real, but then money would be no object and I wouldn't have asked the questions.

Maybe someday I will just get lucky and be in position to have both - or a real one.

Jeff
_________________
Current:
1979 924, all stock.
1988 951 all track modded out and angry.

Past: 1986 951, 1988 924S, 1965 912 with '69 911T engine.

[ditch68]

[flosho]

[ditch68]

I would only want one that is close to real as possible. Like car show worthy with a disclaimer.

My 951 as it is now will likely outperform a stock CGT, so that would never be the goal. They are just raw, cool, unrefined, and a great piece of Porsche history. I guess unrefined is the wrong word. They are refined for the track and homologation, not the street. Thats the best part!

THAT is why I would consider swapping one for one. Either car will outdrive my track skill.

Good points, all. Older and cruder almost always piques my interest more.

Jeff
_________________
Current:
1979 924, all stock.
1988 951 all track modded out and angry.

Past: 1986 951, 1988 924S, 1965 912 with '69 911T engine.

[v8carreragts]

[ditch68]

I think your car (v8 carreragt) will be a reliable, fast homage to the original. I normally do NOT like out pf maker engine swaps, but this one makes sense and is just making a great fun car on the money.

Keep us posted, you arent done quite yet, correct?

Jeff
_________________
Current:
1979 924, all stock.
1988 951 all track modded out and angry.

Past: 1986 951, 1988 924S, 1965 912 with '69 911T engine.

[v8carreragts]

No, it's not done yet. I finished the motor; torque tube; transaxle; suspension; fuel system; wiring and gauges. Basically all I have left is the dashboard which I will probably finish in about a week and prepping the body; painting it and final assembly.
_________________
84 944--924 Carrera GTS clone w/520HP Chevy 302 V8--RUNNING!
2015 AUDI Q7
2013 Dodge Charger R/T AWD HEMI
2013 Chevy Cruze

[morghen]

[ideola]

As a recent point of reference, "931GT" just sold his CGT clone. Don't know what the final price was, but he was asking $6500, and his was probably one of the better-executed conversions I've seen.

It was based on an 81 931, including the TMIC. However, the front clip on his was not exactly correct (close but some details are different), and his had fixed headlight conversion (a GTS feature) but none of the other GTS mods.

http://bringatrailer.com/2013/04/30/carrera-gt-clone-1981-porsche-924-turbo/

To achieve a "show worthy" conversion, the body and paint work alone is going to cost in the multiple thousands of dollars, depending of course on how much you can do yourself. From a paint perspective, it's much cheaper and much less work to stick with the original color of the donor chassis, but a good professional paint job will still cost as much if not more than all of the mechanical work...especially if it's red (THE most expensive color of paint to buy here in the states).

To add to the cost, if you start with a 931, you'll need to source a replacement hood (no NACA duct on the GT variants); if you start with anything else, you'll need a replacement badge panel with plastic inserts (somewhat challenging to find). The correct front valance and correct CGT rear bumper are also not easy to locate, even in fiberglass. And don't forget the welting for the hood scoop and the rear arches.

As for interior, the only place I know that has a reproduction of the pin-striped velor is http://www.werk924.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16&Itemid=26, and it ain't cheap.

As for mechanicals, IMO, the best thing to do would be to start with a 1981 Euro 931. This will get you the Euro DITC equipped motor with 8.5:1 CR and a close-to-correct G31 trans (81 US had the Audi trans, 80 US didn't have DITC and had different gearing in the G31). There are a few details that would be hard to source or replicate like the brake ducts, the TMIC, larger bearings in the rear torsion carrier, etc.
_________________
erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

[Rasta Monsta]

[ditch68]