924Board.org

[itbracer85porky]

Hello all. I am new to the 924 forum, but have owned 27 944's and 924's combined.
Currently working on a 924 DP replica street/track car. Recently purchased a used engine that runs perfectly. Upon delivery, it has some pretty neat stuff on it. It has a header, a lot of port work done, had webers carbs, and it has an interesting adjustable timing gear manufactured by Drake Engineering in California. Apparently they closed up shop in the mid 80's, but made some impressive VW based engines for Scirrocco's and the SCCA Super V series. There is also an engine label from "Berkshire Racing Green" in Monterey, Massachussetts. Has anyone ever heard of either of these businesses? I am trying to figure out which direction to go with this new (to me) engine. I plan on removing the head, and checking to see if the pistons are stock, but based on what I can see, and the extent to which it seems to be built, I am hoping they are not stock. I would welcome any thoughts, suggestions, ideas and general input. Hope to hear from you all out there.


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1977 Porsche 924 DP Replica (in process)
1984 Porsche 944 Euro conversion
1990 Eagle Talon SCCA ITA
2010 Ford F150 Supercrew
2012 Nissan 370 sport pack

[ideola]

For starters, we need pix!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Secondly, welcome to the forum.

Sorry, I haven't heard of either of those businesses, but would be very keen to see some of the custom bits you mentioned. Where did you find the car?
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

[itbracer85porky]

Its actually a 1977 non-sunroof 924, nothing special (yet), just the garden variety early 924. I am doing it all myself. Its the stock bright yellow car, very good shape. I found it here in New Hampshire. I found the spare motor yesterday in southern Massachussetts, and knew it was a bit different, so I came home with it. Someone definitely spent some serious time and $$ on this engine at some point.
I cant figure out how to load pics onto the posts. I have plenty of the car in process that I would like to share. Its looking pretty cool. I can send some to emails if that helps.
Eric
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1977 Porsche 924 DP Replica (in process)
1984 Porsche 944 Euro conversion
1990 Eagle Talon SCCA ITA
2010 Ford F150 Supercrew
2012 Nissan 370 sport pack

[ideola]

[itbracer85porky]

Here are some pics of the 924, and I also included one of my recently completed 944 with Euro bumpers, 931 nose panel, etc, etc.[img][/img]
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1977 Porsche 924 DP Replica (in process)
1984 Porsche 944 Euro conversion
1990 Eagle Talon SCCA ITA
2010 Ford F150 Supercrew
2012 Nissan 370 sport pack

[itbracer85porky]

Here is a pic of the front DP fender with basic fit-up, just to see how it looks. The entire front end will be on, and fitted within a week or so. I am pleased with the results of my 944, so I hope the 924 comes out just as nice (in my opinion). WIth the 944, I wanted to have a kind of Carrera GT styled car that I was not afraid to use regularly, and have some inexpensive fun with it. I am after the same thing with the 924, with a slightly different flair. I am also looking forward to tinkering with the 2 liter engine, as I have had plenty of fun with the 2.5 cars in ITS racing. Thoughts or suggestions anyone?
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1977 Porsche 924 DP Replica (in process)
1984 Porsche 944 Euro conversion
1990 Eagle Talon SCCA ITA
2010 Ford F150 Supercrew
2012 Nissan 370 sport pack

[ideola]

Wow, you have the makings of a nice collection there! How about some underhood shots of the red car?
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

[itbracer85porky]

Thanks! Its been fun, if not challenging at times (sure you know how that can be) No pics downloaded of the red cars engine. Underhood is just basically stock, just very clean.
I was thinking of putting on a small supercharger from a Mazda Millenia for some extra "oomph", but I think I will just leave it alone and drive it as is. Although its still tempting because it could fit easily where the upper balance shaft goes. Not hard at all to fabricate all the stuff to make it work.
The weight I saved with the Euro bumpers helps with the power to weight ratio, and if I want to zoom around, I will make the 924 much lighter and more powerful, and besides, for outright speed, I just bought a brand new 370Z as well, so I just want the Porsche's to perform respectably, and be reliable, fun, and clean.
I am hoping I can get the 924 close to 2300 lbs, and would be happy with 150-160 hp normally aspirated.
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1977 Porsche 924 DP Replica (in process)
1984 Porsche 944 Euro conversion
1990 Eagle Talon SCCA ITA
2010 Ford F150 Supercrew
2012 Nissan 370 sport pack

[ideola]

[itbracer85porky]

Yeah, thats what I am reading. I am hoping that new engine I bought has some goodies inside. Based on what I have found online about Drake engineering, they were pretty good at making these little motors go. In 1976 they built a 199hp 1.6 liter Scirocco. I dont think I have anything that crazy here, but anything other than stock is going to be ok.
Does the early 924 use the same head as any of the VW products (early GTI's?). Are there any lightweight pulleys from VW's that fit? I know they dont do much, but they look really nice (I have them on my SCCA ITA Mitsu eclipse, and I think they help)
I know the CIS is flexible enough when running correctly. I am thinking compression bump (at least to Euro specs), Audi 5K throttle body, the header, etc. The head is already heavily ported, and I need to find out what cam is in there, and where the cam timing is set. I would be happy to get "in the ballpark" of 150.
What do you think needs to be done to get into the 150 hp range with the NA 2 liter?
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1977 Porsche 924 DP Replica (in process)
1984 Porsche 944 Euro conversion
1990 Eagle Talon SCCA ITA
2010 Ford F150 Supercrew
2012 Nissan 370 sport pack

[itbracer85porky]

Wow, that thread link you sent along is VERY interesting. I would be up for that if you can find all the parts to make it work. I like stuff like that, and my 924 is here to stay, so I would like to experiment a bit with it long term, especially now that i have a spare motor (I would experiment with the engine in the car now). This sounds like it would satisfy my HP wishes!
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1977 Porsche 924 DP Replica (in process)
1984 Porsche 944 Euro conversion
1990 Eagle Talon SCCA ITA
2010 Ford F150 Supercrew
2012 Nissan 370 sport pack

[924RACR]

I think if you're going to cam it, and assuming you've also got a later head with the bigger valves (or retrofitted), you could make the 150-160 range. Sounds like you at least know how to put an engine together...

Definitely will want to lighten and balance it, there's plenty of weight to remove from the rods and flywheel. Maybe even tackle the crank (knife-edge etc), if you're motivated. Definitely crank scraper etc, both for power and to control oil flow. Will need very good oil cooling and an Accusump to keep 'er alive. 9.5:1CR is easy to run, and you could probably get away with even more, probably 10.5:1, with race gas.

Lightweight pulleys are a great idea too - we're still stock with ours. I bet some aftermarket VW pulleys will work, given that all that valve drivetrain is VW. Just never looked into it. But the stock ones are pretty heavy.

You may even investigate a custom header, though we're still running an off-the-shelf one on ours. Maybe in time we'll go custom. TBD, have to see how long the current one lasts.

In IT(B) trim, we guesstimate our 2.0L running around 130-135hp. So targeting 150+ seems reasonable if you remove the IT restrictions.
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Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[itbracer85porky]

Wow, I am really glad I got onto this site. The info I have already received is very helpful!
I think, based on the existing header, port work, and the adjustable cam gear, that there is an aftermarket cam in there. At least thats what I am hoping for. I have to put the engine on a stand, and start investigating exactly what I have.
After that, I will remove the head and look at the pistons, measure the bores, measure the valves, etc. That will tell me definitively what I have.
I also have a spare 931 head, that apparently already has the bigger valves (is this correct?). I could port that if needed (and locate the spark plugs to the topside as well).
I will definitely lighten the flywheel too. Thats just cheap, free HP!
Is the 931 head a direct bolt on swap? Does anybody make the crank scrapers? I love building things that dont have the IT restrictions too. Its a lot of fun, hence the entire meaning of this project.
Any ideas of what VW pullys fit (years/models?) I could re-machine anything, but a direct fit would be nice.
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1977 Porsche 924 DP Replica (in process)
1984 Porsche 944 Euro conversion
1990 Eagle Talon SCCA ITA
2010 Ford F150 Supercrew
2012 Nissan 370 sport pack

[ideola]

The 931 head bolts onto the block, no problem, but as you will read elsewhere on this forum, there are some caveats. The biggest issue is that it has a combustion chamber of ~21.5cc in the head, while the NA head you have is heron style, or flat, i.e. no combustion chamber. This means you have to go with custom pistons to use the 931 head if you want anything reasonable for compression ratio. This is precisely why I started investigating the cheap long rod stroker that I linked to in the other thread, because it provides a relatively inexpensive path to achieving a true D-Production-style engine.

The next issue is that the stock exhaust manifold won't work too well...but if you already have a header, there's a good chance it has 1.5" tubing, which is a very close match to the 931 exhaust ports. I cover this topic on that other thread as well. So you would need to enlarge/enlongate the stud holes in the 924 header flanges because the 931 has larger ports, uses 10mm (vs. 8mm) studs, and they're spaced about 6mm farther apart.

The last issue is the intake manifold...the NA bolt spacing is slightly different than the 931, but you can elongate and enlarge those by hand as well. Or better yet, swap on a 931 manifold if you have one lying about.

As for crank scrapers, you can order them from me:
http://garage.ideola.com/prod-2LEngineMods.html#IJCS

If you're going to do anything custom (knife edge or non-stock rods), though, we'll want to get a pattern from I-J to match up to the profile of your crank-rod combo.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

[ideola]

I was also going to mention, those wheels on the back of the yellow car look the bizness!!!
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made