924Board.org

[Haven]

Getting broke in quickly on the "S".

My wife went out to drive the car for a short trip to the store yesterday and as I watched as she started it, I noticed a quick small plume of white smoke come from the exhaust and immediately disappear. I made her sit for a minute just to make sure it was gone and then she was on her way. I figured it was condensation as it had rained for two days and the car hadn't been started for about 24 hours.

Today, I went outside to see if I could recreate what happened and lo and behold I did, and then some. I started the car this time and no smoke was evident upon startup, however, after about 30 seconds a very light white smoke starts to come from exhaust and as I let it sit there it get's heavier and heavier. After about 2 minutes the smoke is what I would consider thick, but not fill the neighborhood with smoke thick. The smoke is also mostly white. It looks as if it could have a tinge of blue to it at times, but I don't know if that's my eyes or the smoke.

I also notice that there looks to be water or coolant coming from my tailpipe to the point where it will drip. Under the hood I notice there is no oil in the coolant that I can tell, it looks clean. I also checked the oil dipstick and did notice at the very top of the stick a small amount of whitish/cream colored goo, like coffee with too much cream.. but on down the stick where the oil reading is, the oil looked fine.

Car is idling normally and doesn't hesitate on acceleration.

All signs seem to point to the beginning of a head gasket failure, from what I have read on the board and with what little knowledge I have of them. The cars mileage is at ~105,100

What sucks is that I just had the FOES done ~400 miles ago and at that time the head gasket checked out fine. I had them thoroughly check for any signs of a failing head gasket because I was paranoid from what I read on here. They told me that it seemed to be in great order.

I was supposed to take the car in for the free 1500 mile belt re-tension, but now it looks like I will be going back a lot sooner.

Sound like the 87 924S head gasket curse to you or something else?
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1987 Porsche 924S Auto

[edredas]

Check that you do not have too much oil in the engine. It could explain the plume of smoke, but not the water. While you're at it, sniff the oil, does it smell like fuel?

If it does, you could have either a bad fuel pressure regulator or leaky injector. Either of these can cause plumes of smoke and fluid running out of the exhaust. In some cases LOTS of this fluid (it's unspent fuel that no longer has a smell) can run from the exhaust and it's all too often misdiagnosed as a bad head gasket.
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'84 944 -White, Brown interior
'84 944 -Red, Automatic
'86 944 -Garnet, Fully loaded, Koni suspension
'87 924S -Red, 300hp 951 swap
'87 924S -Red, Project Car
'88 924S -Red, Daily Driver

[gohim]

Are you sure that what you've seen coming out of the tailpipe is coolant?

Does it smell like coolant? Is the cooling system losing fluid?

How is the engine temperature? Usually a blown headgasket on a Porsche 2.5L engine is pretty obvious (elevated/overheating temperature, and oil scum in the coolant reservoir).

Are you sure that the vapor coming out of the tailpipe is not just normal condensation from the engine warming up? It's normal for most all acrs to form a little condensate/moisture scum on the oil filler cap. Driving the car to normal operating temperatures will remove moisture from the oil system.

I would not panic yet. While most 87 924S will eventually require headgasket replacement by 120K miles. It appears to be a manufacturing or material problem. Once the headgasket has been properly replacement with quality parts, the problem does not reoccur. And not all 87 924S will develop the problem. And maybe the head gasket on your car has already been replaced, or you are one of the lucky ones.

Just make sure that you warm the car up, before you drive off, keep an eye on the coolant reservoir for signs of oil scum, watch the oil dipstick for coolant (a rise in oil level signals that the oil cooler seals have failed), and watch the temperature gauge for signs of overheating. Go ahead and enjoy the car. If the head gasket is going to blow, it's out of your control.

[Haven]

Thanks guys...

I did check the oil level.. it's a little low if anything. It doesn't really smell like fuel.

Wasn't really sure if it was coolant coming from tailpipe, so I tasted it, (what the hell right.. lol ) .. It was water as far as I can tell.

I did take your advice gohim and when I got home from work, I hopped into the car and let it warm up some and drove off. I took it out for about 30 minutes and let it get up to temp. She never acted like she was even close to overheating. Temp never even got up to the halfway point. I even gunned it a few times up and down the road just to make sure.

When I got back home I checked everything out under the hood again and everything seemed ok. Coolant level is where it should be and still no oily residue. I did remove the goop from oil dipstick when I checked it previously, so I will keep an eye on that and oil fill cap like you said.

After about an hour I went back out to start car up again to check for smoke and it was still there, but only abut a 10th of what it was previously. Before this last week.. it never smoked, which is what concerned me.

I'm thinking I was/am just a little overly paranoid being that I'm new to these cars and I've read so many of your posts in other threads gohim... lol j/k

I guess it's better to be a proactive toofah owner than a neglectful one. I really appreciate the help and advice I get here.
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1987 Porsche 924S Auto

[joecitizennn]

It does not seem to me that you have seen any definitive evidence of hg failure. What you need is reassurance to make yourself feel better. Pull your plugs and check the plug color. Often a hg fail will reveal itself in a ultra clean plug at one cylinder. This is from the coolant in the combustion steam cleaning the plug. Do a compression check on all cylinders. This can possibly reveal a hg leak. Even better yet do a leakdown test. This will tell you lots about your engine. If you have a bad hg leak it will show up in the form of a high leakdown figure in that cyl as well as escaped air in the coolant. It will also tell you the condition of your valves and rings across the board.
_________________
87 924s
88 924SE gone
447 hp cgt clone
87 924S gone
84 944 sold
83 944 sold
89 turbo S LSD, ABS etc
86 951 white rocket
85 944 sport everything.
84 944 sold.
87 944 sold

[Haven]

Started car this morning and it was back to blowing out thick white smoke. Seems too thick and white to be your average cool morning exhaust vapor. Decided to drive it anyway. After driving some, the smoke went away. Still no elevated temp, etc.
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1987 Porsche 924S Auto

[Haven]

Going to stop by Harbor Freight later and pick up compression/leak down test tools. Any other ideas of what could cause it to smoke so bad?
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1987 Porsche 924S Auto

[scm924s]

Possible brake servo failure?

[bcblase]

The byproducts of combusted gasoline = carbon monoxide and water

I have white vapor and water dripping from my tailpipe all the time
when it is cool or cold outside.

I would consider this very normal for a gasoline engine with a fairly long
uninsulated exhaust pipe.

If your oil and coolant look good, don't worry about it.

Brad
_________________
1987 Porsche 924S - track toy
1986 Mercedes 190E 2.3-16v - autocross
2007 F-150 5.4L Lariat Supercrew - tow beast
1994 Volvo 850 Race Wagon - 24 Hours of Lemons Car
2001 BMW 325xi - daily driver

[John_AZ]

I replaced the HG on my 1987 924S in Jan, '07.

I had been expecting it. Still I was in denial. I did all of the previous suggestions and tests. Good advice in above posts.

I pulled the head and took it to a machine shop- $200 labor.
Pelican still sells the HG kit for $100. You will need to get 2 exhaust flange gaskets extra. Head nuts should be replaced.

If you see a little oil in the TB throttle body, now is a good time to replace the AOS seals. The intake has to be off. Why do it over?

Get injector kits and maybe have injectors professionally cleaned.

With the intake off you can replace all the vac hoses and clean the ICV.

Check the gap on the reference sensors while the head is at the shop.

Keep the ring of carbon on top inside of the cyl walls. It aids combustion.

Put grease around the piston tops to avoid getting dirt between the cyl walls and pistons.

Parts, head labor, extras, $500 to $800--depends. Prices do not include shop labor if you do not have the time or resources.

GL
John
_________________
'88 924S 67K
'87 924S 122K -DD
Past: 1970 914 1.7, 1977.5 924, 1979 924, +++== Gone, Past tutors

[Rasta Monsta]

^^listen, grasshopper
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Toofah King Bad

• WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3

[Haven]

Thanks for the advice John. Definitely keeping those things in mind.

For right now, I'm crossing my fingers and chalking it up to condensation. I've been watching it the last few days and the smoking has virtually stopped. It did rain last night and got cold again and this morning the smoke was back but went away after warm and driving as usual. It doesn't happen again until it sits again for a night or two.. and then may only do so when it's rainy/cold.. haven't tested that yet.. (hasn't really warmed up here in the last week or so).

Borrowed my friends compression tester and compression is still over 150 on all cylinders. So that seems ok.

The car never overheats and I still haven't noticed any oil in the coolant reservoir.

Seems like if it was the HG, the smoke would only be getting worse right?

One thing I did need to confirm though was the goo on the oil dipstick. Right under where the "ball" is on the dipstick, there is just a little bit of peanut-butter looking goo that accumulates. It's never more than enough to cover the entire tip of your finger, but it's there nevertheless. After celaning it and re-checking a couple of days later, it's there again. On further down, where the oil is measured, the oil looks fine and there seems to be no mixture of water/coolant and oil.

Is the goo normal?

I have read and been told that the smoking may be bad valve stem seals.. so I will check into that as well.

Thanks for the help
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1987 Porsche 924S Auto

[bcblase]

The brown goo is not normal - you have some water in your oil.

It could be condensation in the oil pan or coming from elsewhere,
like the AOS seals, oil cooler seals, ???

Does the car live outside, or in the garage?
When is the last time you changed the oil?
_________________
1987 Porsche 924S - track toy
1986 Mercedes 190E 2.3-16v - autocross
2007 F-150 5.4L Lariat Supercrew - tow beast
1994 Volvo 850 Race Wagon - 24 Hours of Lemons Car
2001 BMW 325xi - daily driver

[Haven]

[John_AZ]

My compression readings were 145-150 across.

Did you remember to remove the DME/FUEL pump relay as required by porsche when you did the compression test? If not you washed the cyls with gas.

I bought a Leak Down tester at HF. I tested a couple of times. Listened carefully at the exhaust and the oil fill hole and watched for bubbles in the coolant reservoir. Nothing conclusive.

When the smoke came back again and again, usually a block from the house, I just decided to do the HG.

YUP.

GL
John
_________________
'88 924S 67K
'87 924S 122K -DD
Past: 1970 914 1.7, 1977.5 924, 1979 924, +++== Gone, Past tutors