924Board.org

Brian Bailey · Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Posts: 39 Location: Alberta

I recently swapped out my starter ('78 924) with a rebuilt Bosch. Hated it. Enjoyed several drives, then she wouldn't start. No solenoid action, lights, etc. Tried boosting the battery - cold here in Alberta - big draw from the donor battery - some melting of the cables. Being an electroniphobe, should I presume a ground fault, faulty starter, crappy workmanship...
Thanks, B

staticsan · Joined: 19 Jan 2009 Posts: 450 Location: Sydney, Australia

Dud or just wired wrong?

The '924 starter has a relay in it to help deliver the current. My understanding is that this is rather unusual; it took my Dad and I a long time to figure this out from the Haynes diagram, after wondering quite what that extra relay was lurking in my engine bay!

Wade.

Slam · Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:27 am Post subject:

Did you refurb the wiring harness from the batt to the starter and alternator? That can cure many problems. There shouldn't be any melting of wires, even boosting at very cold temps. Improper grounding is a constant issue as well. Maybe pull the starter and have it tested?
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'88 944 Auto - may or may not resurrect

!tom · Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:43 am Post subject:

Seized engine?

In the super cold weather you're having, what engine oil are you using?
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78 924 NA
5-lug

jacobscott209 · Joined: 11 Dec 2010 Posts: 52 Location: Turlock, CA

I have a similar problem. If I wiggle and pull on the wires it will usually fire. Haven't had a chance to get around to it yet. I'm thinking something happened to the wires from being next to the exhaust because the connections are solid and clean.
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77924

Brian Bailey · Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Posts: 39 Location: Alberta

So… I changed the starter (rebuilt Bosch), which had spinoff pleasures like removing exhaust and sheild components, but thought I’d done a decent job. The car started several times, got me to work but failed to get me home. No electrics were functioning. Dead battery? So I tried boosting, resulting in over-heating booster cables.
After pushing it into a shop, I have concluded the following:
There is continuity (zero resistance) between the battery cables after removing the battery.
After splitting the two red leads from the main positive cable, red leads no continuity, main cable, continuity.
Visual inspection shows no sign of worn shielding or arcing on the main lead. Terminal connections at the starter appear correct.
So… Is it possible the starter is defective in a way that current will arc through it when it is not activated?
Is there anything to do besides repeat the starter removal and have it tested?
I’ve probably just answered my own question, but would appreciate some outside inspiration!
Thanks.

daniel · Joined: 18 Jun 2009 Posts: 686 Location: Sydney, Australia

In short, yes the starter can short. But I would first pull the positive lead from the solenoid and see if you still have a short to earth.

Good luck
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Over the top of skyline, total brake failure.... hit the wall at over 200 kp/h at the dipper, so anyone who has to brake for the esses is a pussy.
1977.5 Race Car, CAMS Group S Spec
1989 944 Cabriolet

!tom · Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:17 pm Post subject:

You should have continuity between the battery cables with the battery removed, or else there would be nowhere for the juice to go when the battery is connected.

You'd be getting continuity through the clock in your dash and your radio keepalive, among other circuits.

Your troubleshooting is going to have to be far more involved.

Check for a short from the main wire going to your starter to ground somewhere. It's entirely possible the insulation is damaged and you have a direct short here or associated wiring.
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78 924 NA
5-lug

Brian Bailey · Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Posts: 39 Location: Alberta

Thanks for your assistance, folks!

jeanette

oh gosh.....

Just had two similar experiences with "Janis"<---( AKA '78 924 brat)
She ran fine on the freeway, twisties, over some lumpy road...shut her off to deliver stuff to my Mom, (about 20 minutes).... then no lights,no cranking, no starting..... no nothing.

Turned the key over tried again...nothing.
Popped the hood, and did the "seriously stupid looking" wigglethewires at the negative battery post....and she started perfectly.
(Don't think this problem is due to the ignition switch.)
Ran great all the way home....
Three days later pulled her out of the garage... and again no starting.
Same "stupid looking" wire fiddling got her to start and run fine.
Not cold or damp here on either day.
Seems if there is a loose wire or bad ground, there should be at least a few hiccups or rough running.....?
I give, as I can't seem to duplicate this on a whim, and I really am wondering if there isn't a wire touching with the hood down...?
Dirty negative battery post?

jeanette
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"person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt person who is doing it"

Brian Bailey · Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Posts: 39 Location: Alberta

The final (hopefully) comment on this topic. I put the car on a hoist, (MUCH better than my car jacks and creeper!) removed ancillary parts and discovered what was suspected. The main cable at the starter terminal had found ground, which accounted for zero resistance through the battery cables. I loosened the cable, rotated it about 90 degrees, checked resistance, found a reasonable reading due to dash components, reinstalled exhaust etc, and presto! There was no rubber boot over the connector (maybe once was), but the title of my inquiry suits my job well: "Crappy workmanship or what". :oops:
Jeanette, disconnect the battery and connect an ohm meter across your battery cables. Zero resistance?

jeanette · Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:07 pm Post subject:

The final (hopefully) comment on this topic. I put the car on a hoist, (MUCH better than my car jacks and creeper!) removed ancillary parts and discovered what was suspected. The main cable at the starter terminal had found ground, which accounted for zero resistance through the battery cables. I loosened the cable, rotated it about 90 degrees, checked resistance, found a reasonable reading due to dash components, reinstalled exhaust etc, and presto! There was no rubber boot over the connector (maybe once was), but the title of my inquiry suits my job well: "Crappy workmanship or what".

Jeanette, disconnect the battery and connect an ohm meter across your battery cables. Zero resistance?

Will have to get a meter.
Ran Janis hard with a zillion starts and stops today, and she was as (usually) always... perfect.
Still... knowing what a Drama Queen she can be... I had better head this off now.
Thanks!
jeanette
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"person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt person who is doing it"