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ugly924 · Joined: 30 Jan 2009 Posts: 2 Location: inland empire, CA

I scored a somewhat clean 1977 924 for a rather nice price...FREE. Heres the problem. Pretty much all of the electrical and vacuum system is trashed. as far as the accessories and lights go, I have that handled. My question is, Do these old CIS cars have any computer hidden away anywhere? I could not find one. Is there any wiring diagrams out there for the engine? I searched the site for quite a while with no results. The second issue is the vacuum system. Its a horrid california emission spec' car and there has apparently been some changes to the vacuum system. There is a rather large cylinder mounted on the passenger side fender well with about 7 ports on it, Does that go to anything important?
I have had it running on carburetor cleaner though. It sounds really nice for something that hasnt been on the road since 1994.
It had a new cap,rotor,plugwires and coil laying in the floor when I picked it up..I just had to remove half a bag of junk to get to the stuff.
The CIS boots are actually in good shape for their age, the valve works good as well, I hope the diaphragm is good. The coolant lines are little to be desired just like all the belts..but hey it sat for 14 years in some guys yard. suprisingly as well the engine isnt covered in 20 pounds of old oil and grease like my beater is. Its just coated in dirt and dust which suprises me for a car of its age not leaking everywhere.
and please tell me these old things have an oxygen sensor or some type of post combustion feedback. I dont think I seen one labled on the emissions print out but it doesnt hurt to hope does it?
As of right now the only things that will work with a battery in it, are some of the gauges, the coil and a few tail lights, a front marker light if you wiggle some harnesses..and if you whack the fuse/relay board laying on the floor the headlights will rise for a moment.

I also plan on removing the old porsche/vw fuse panel and installing a later model panel with updated fuses. I dont like those old ceramic things.

The beast as of a few days ago. I dont like the spray job..It was white not that its any better. I flipped the lights half way up for the picture :D

Anhaedra · Joined: 02 Aug 2007 Posts: 32

Nope, no computer.

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

Here's the bad news...

Since the car is a 77, you are going to have to get all of the emissions equipment working, since in CA all cars made after model year 75 will be tested every two years for eternity.

That means you are going to have replace all of the missing vacuum lines, including those on the vacuum amplifer that you found on the right inner fender. I hope the car you got does not have an smog air pump, since they are rare, and expensive.

The best vacuum and electrical circuit diagrams will be found in the Porsche Factory Workshop Manual Set, OR the Tech Spec Information Manual printed by Porsche at the begining of each model year to detail the changes for the new model year version of the car.

924RACR · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:25 pm Post subject:

Scored??? Wouldn't be the word I'd use...

That car probably does have an air pump - mine did (CA spec '77 1/2).
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Vaughan Scott
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'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
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!tom · Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:46 am Post subject:

I might have a spare. . .
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78 924 NA
5-lug

924guy · Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:47 am Post subject:

congrats! I think youll find that besides the CIS set up, and the CA emissions, the car is a breeze to work on. how many cars can sit for years and years and start right up with just a bit of attention?

my 78 does not/did not come with an o2 sensor, just an egr system, but it is also not a ca version so who knows...
as for the fuse box, you can find replacement glass fuses for the ceramics, though from the sounds of things, youll be yanking the existing set up any how to clean /replcae wires.. perhaps an early audi blade fuse box will work, not sure, but worth checking into and some of the multiplugs may even match up. first thing i would do is start cleaning grounding points , common issue, and see where that leads too...
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78 924
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Chrenan · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 3903 Location: Canada

No O2 sensor until 1980.
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1987 951 - M193 Version for Japan

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

The latest "gift" from the CA AQMD (air quality management board) is the "evaporative system test". What this new test does is test the EVAP system in the car from the gas cap to the charcoal canister by pinching off the hose to the charcoal canister from the vapor system, and replacing the gas cap to pressurize the fuel vapor recovery system to 1.5atms above normal.

The test is supposed to find leaking fuel systems so they can be repaired to prevent fuel vapor from being released to the atmosphere.

I never had a problem with the 95 Golf GL I bought last year till I had this test done. The car failed the first time through, and I went through the vapor system from the intake manifold to the fill neck replacing every hose clamp and placing a hose clamp on every connection I could find, including dropping the gas tank. All standard bulk hose, except for the two hoses on the charcoal canister. VW wanted $130 for those two hoses (one rubber, and one clear plastic with 90 degree elbows on them).

The car passed after this, but now smells of gas all the time (never smelled of gas before the car was tested the first time).

On a 924, we have all those hoses attached to the filler neck and the external fuel pump. To get past the new test, I would guess that the hoses and the clamps will all have to be replaced, along with the rubber gasket that seals the fuel filler neck to the tank.

What I would suggest is replacing or installing stainless steel band hose clamps on every hose connection you can find on the fuel system and the vapor recovery system. Home Depot sells 100% stainless steel (band, housing and worm screw) for $6.60-$7.00 for 10 of the same size. The packages of clamps sold at all of the auto parts stores used to be 100% stainless but a couple of years ago, they raised the prices and changed the clamps to stainless bands, and regular steel for the housing and worm screw.

When I did mine, I cut the old clamps off, to avoid disturbing the seal, then opened up the band clamps and slipped them over the hoses. I replaced any hose that looked old/cracked, or felt brittle. I pressurized the fuel tank with air from my compressor, and checked for leaks with a soap soution.

Going back to the vacuum amplifier mounted on the right inner fender. If the rubber block is cracking, you need to seal it after you get the right size hose to replace the missing ones. Without sealing, the car will never pass the vacuum system test. You can try replacing it, but if it's working, I would try cleaning it, and sealing it with a coat or silicone sealer over the rubber block, and around the hoses installed/inserted in it.

ugly924 · Joined: 30 Jan 2009 Posts: 2 Location: inland empire, CA

I was aware of the fact I have to smog this thing. Is there any purpose at all to the vacuum amplifier? Ive never heard of it before. I don't think it has an airpump either but I will look. This one has a nice little dummy light on the dash for the EGR valve, Great idea if you ask me..If you don't know what a car spitting out tons of NOX smells like. The only thing that really bothers me is the vacuum lines.. I know they get rather anal about it. Everything else I can beat down in a weekend. If all does go south atleast it will make a nice rallye project

datatrain · Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:53 am Post subject:

I have a 78 CA 924NA. Replaced the vac lines last summer. I just bought about 15 - 20 feet of neoprene or whatever it's now called fuel line. Sized to push over the various connections. It was cheap and easy to work with and took about an hour to complete. It seems to work well and I have no complaints. I got tight fits on every connection because it stretches.
The Vac Amp is difficult to locate as a replacement part. I just siliconed all the connections and pipes on this baby and it no longer leaks.

DAve
_________________
'78 924 NA with Collector plate
33 year old car, with me for 21 yrs
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gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

You really need to read the Factory Service Workshop Manual.

Without passing a smog test, you can't transfer ownership, license, or register it.

You can't remove any hardware related to emissions, and yes, the vacuum amplifier does do something.

If you have a 77, then your engine will not have a smog pump. If you have a 77 1/2 (manufactured Dec.77 or later in the model year) you should have a smog pump. If your car is supposed to have a smog pump, and anybody removed it (does not have to be you), it is considered to be an illegal action, and the car cannot be transferred or registered until the emissions system has been completely restored (missing parts replaced, and passed a emissions test, no legal limit on the cost of repairs when an emissions systems has been illegally modified).

The light on the dashboard is not for the EGR Valve, it simply indicated that the emissions system needs to be inspected and tested. There is a mechanical counter located on the speedo cable under the dashboard that will turn on the light every 25K miles. Depressing a red button recessed on the side of the counter will turn the light off by resetting the counter. If the light is on when you go for a smog check, you automatically fail the test. Turn the light off now.

If your car is spitting out the tailpipe you are not going to pass the test, fix the engine before you go for testing. Do not try to adjust the idle speed or mixture until after you fix everything else (replace leaking or missing vacuum lines, air filter, fuel filter, any leaking fuel lines, the plug in the airflow sensor body for the mixture adjustment, distributor cap, rotor, spark plugs, timing belt, change oil, time the camshaft and the ignition, run a tank or two or premium grade fuel). And put new band clamp hose clamps on all of the fuel and vapor hoses, or you don't have a pray of passing the test.

The engine will not run well on any gas except for premium grade.

Ozzie · Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:21 am Post subject:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/index.htm
has wiring diagrams similar to your needs.

If you want to replace the wiring (can be a good thing as these cars are known for wiring problems)
http://stores.homestead.com/ez2wire/StoreFront.bok
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gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

There was a thread about a year or two ago about replace the fuse box with one that used blade fuses. I posted photos of the box from a A2 Series VW (85-92 Golf or Jetta) and they appear to be exactly the same except for the VW part uses blade fuses.

I won an auction on eBay today for a a Ford Rotunda Evap Emissions Tester for $9, plus shipping. Not quite complete, as the gas gauge for the Nitrogen tank, back panel for the Tester, the fuel cap adapters and the carrying case are missing (what do you expect for $9).

I intend to make a fuel cap adapter (should work for my 924, 944, and Vw Golf) from a regular gas cap, and pressurize the fuel system with air from my compressor (instead of Nitrogen tank).

Then, I can test my cars before I run to the Smog Check every two years. Last year I helped a friend get a 4-gas analyzer. If we had room, I'd bid for a used dyno from a closed smog test station, I've seen several go for less than $5K on eBay recently.

Rasta Monsta · Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 11733 Location: PacNW

mehall · Joined: 15 Dec 2008 Posts: 191 Location: Richmond, MO

Wow!!

Now I know I am glad I didn't take those job offers in CA!! I would certainly chafe under these regulations. Especially since the only thing most of this "clean air" regs do is enrich the companies successfully selling equipment and new "torture the tax payer" schemes.

[I think it's against the rules to get into a long discussion here.]

In Missouri, we require that what was on the car has to be there and working. We haven't come up with the newer, and ever more questionable regulations the west coast has designed. And any politician that tries will earn early retirement. You gotta PROVE it works here.

In CA, it seems taht all it takes is a slick sales presentation to the right guys in Sacremento, evidence not required, nor invited.
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'87 White 924s manual
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