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Smoothie
Joined: 01 Jan 2003
Posts: 8032
Location: DE (the one near MD, PA, NJ)
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 Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:07 am Post subject: |
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Check that the CSV is getting power with a test light or voltmeter on the CSV's wiring connector.
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"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."
'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox |
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Ozzie
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 4448
Location: Townsville, Qld. Australia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:54 am Post subject: |
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IIRC all europe including UK is the same setup except for LHD or RHD.
this is more than likely what yours looks like.
If shims are fitted to adjust pressures they'll be where marked.
The "O" ring is on the small piston
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Porsche 924 1984 (UK import) NA
Its AUTO and its BLACK
Montego Black on black/red
Engineer of Electro/Mechanical Systems Maintenance |
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!tom
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1941
Location: Victoria, BC Canada
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| Paul wrote: | Can also be a bad fuel accumulator.
You can also turn the key on (not to the start position) and let the fuel pumps run until they stop.
Turn the key off.
Repeat 5 to 10 times to clear the fuel vapor and to refill the system with fuel.
Start the car.
Or just install a push button that runs the pumps when pushed. |
The '78 won't run the fuel pump as you describe. On a '78, the air metering plate needs to be deflected to energize the relay -- it won't energize just by turning the key.
The push button is an interesting idea though -- that would come in handy when the FPR starts acting up.
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78 924 NA
5-lug |
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11733
Location: PacNW
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| !tom wrote: | | On a '78, the air metering plate needs to be deflected to energize the relay. |
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Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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OldBrownShoe
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Norwich UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:19 am Post subject: |
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[The '78 won't run the fuel pump as you describe. On a '78, the air metering plate needs to be deflected to energize the relay -- it won't energize just by turning the key.
The push button is an interesting idea though -- that would come in handy when the FPR starts acting up]
I'm in doubt about my car's configuration, since the relay for 76-78 models did not fit in (I had to move back to the part no. 433 for the 79- models). Does that mean I may have a different system from the 78's and the turn key on/off trick can be effective? I can hear a click from the FPR when I turn the key.
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924 2.0L 1978 Euro LHD |
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!tom
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1941
Location: Victoria, BC Canada
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| OldBrownShoe wrote: | | I'm in doubt about my car's configuration, since the relay for 76-78 models did not fit in (I had to move back to the part no. 433 for the 79- models). Does that mean I may have a different system from the 78's and the turn key on/off trick can be effective? I can hear a click from the FPR when I turn the key. |
If you hear a click from the FPR when you turn your key, it's definately wired differently than my '78, and the procedure as originally mentioned should work. That explains why your replacement FPR doesn't work, since the change in behaviour required a new FPR.
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78 924 NA
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Mike924
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 2601
Location: IoW UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: CIS pressure tester |
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| OldBrownShoe wrote: | More comments/doubts:
1) My car system fuel dizzy is definately different from the picture, so now I am sure I haven't got a frequency valve (one thing less to investigate)
2) I wasn't able to find the check valve... could it be possible that the guy installed the pump without fitting it in??
3) There are two CIS testers in the JC Whitney website, one standard ($39) and other for K-jectronic systems ($59). I suppose I have to go for the more expensive one, right? The problem is that I possibly wouldn't know to operate it as I am a complete ignorant in mechanics (laughs...). 4) Is this device useful to test other components apart from the WUR?
5) I have unplugged the CSV to see what happens and I suspect Smoothie is right about the activation, since it made no difference. I will try to grab a multimeter to test asap.... by the way, how do I test it? Shall I simply disconect the plug and attach the multimeter tips on each pole while cranking and pressing the push-button?
6) If I understand right what Mike suggested, that the CSV is not activated during a hot start and since I've unplugged it with no effect, can the problem the thermo switch then?
7) Has the aux air valve anything to do with this?
8) I've noticed the 'giant' rubber hose is a bit loose on the distributor, occasioning vaccum leak (??) |
1) Smoothie's picture is of a turbo fuel dist. The NA (normally aspirated) one is similar, but not identical, and live in a different place.
2) I don't think so because the the fuel pump check valve is also the adaptor to the fuel line, but he may have re-fitted the old one...
3) Expertly answered by Dennis (dpw928).
4) Yes! It's the only way of properly checking out the whole fuel system.
5) Yes. If the push-button is your hot-start TTS bypass switch then you should see 12V at the CSV terminals when you press the button. If you don't press the button and the engine is cold you should see 12V for between 8 - 10 seconds while cranking. If the engine's hot and your TTS is working there should be 0V on the CSV when cranking.
6) I think it's unlikey. Dennis has come across a shorted TTS which caused similar symptoms, but I think this is a rarer problem than the old hot-start issue...
7) No, not really. All the AAV does is raise the revs slightly for the first 30 seconds of cold running.
8) It needs to be air-tight. So do all the other joints in the inlet tract. The CIS is highly susceptible to inlet vacuum leaks.
Hope this helps. Plus you really need to get hold of a Haynes manual. A good read of the fuel system section will help put a lot of this advice into context.
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1985 Porsche 924 'Lux', Kalahari Beige (my ex)
1993 Porsche 968 Coupe, Midnight Blue, 6 spd
'There is no substitute for a little grease under your fingernails.' - Chrenan, 924board.org |
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Nobbi
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 1398
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:42 am Post subject: |
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Hello OBS,
if that giant rubber thing on your fuel dis. is not completly and tightly fitted then there is no chance your car ever gonna run and start.
Check arround that huge clamp and make sure it is installed well!!
Nobbi |
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Smoothie
Joined: 01 Jan 2003
Posts: 8032
Location: DE (the one near MD, PA, NJ)
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| www.jcwhitney.com wrote: |
$25 Off @ $50 or $125 off @ $250
Enter Code DEABBX8 in your shopping cart.
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Click to Shop NOW. And Hurry!! This offer expires Thursday 2.7.08.
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I'm not sure if this promo applies outside of the US, but give it a try if ordering from them within the next couple of days.
(Don't get too happy when you see the "free shipping" offer - I know that only applies to the lower 48 states.)
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"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."
'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox |
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Smoothie
Joined: 01 Jan 2003
Posts: 8032
Location: DE (the one near MD, PA, NJ)
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:17 am Post subject: |
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I just got another e-mail from them saying that they presented that promo wrong.  Here's the correction -
You may have received an email today from JC Whitney in which the offer was presented incorrectly.
If so, we very much apologize for any inconvenience.
The correct offer is:
$25 Off @ $125 or $50 off @ $250.
_________________
"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."
'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox |
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Mike924
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 2601
Location: IoW UK
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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Wankers!
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1985 Porsche 924 'Lux', Kalahari Beige (my ex)
1993 Porsche 968 Coupe, Midnight Blue, 6 spd
'There is no substitute for a little grease under your fingernails.' - Chrenan, 924board.org |
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OldBrownShoe
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Norwich UK
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:03 pm Post subject: Check Valve |
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Thanks Smoothie, I've sent them I message enquiring about shipping costs to UK but haven't got an answer so far. I will try again asking about the offers conditions as well.
About the check valve, just to confirm: is it the small cilinder on the tip of the small hose from the tank to the pump that appears in the figure 23.16 pg.89 of the Haynes manual?
A stupid question: is there a part number or any 'official' reference to the 'o' ring you've metioned before? There are several 'o' rings on the porscheshop uk website and I'm not sure which one to pick.
Hopefully I'll grab a multimeter tomorrow and will do some checking. Let's see if I find the bug(s)!
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924 2.0L 1978 Euro LHD |
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Mike924
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 2601
Location: IoW UK
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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The check valve is at the other end of the main fuel pump and is part of the banjo coupling to the fuel line going to the accumulator.
If it's the thing I'm thinking of, the part you mention is a black plastic cylinder which was fitted to early cars to act as a 'damper' (resvervior?) in place of the later in-tank pump.
Also Juno was indicating that JC Whitney only respond to the phone when dealing with overseas inquiries - seems strange...
_________________
1985 Porsche 924 'Lux', Kalahari Beige (my ex)
1993 Porsche 968 Coupe, Midnight Blue, 6 spd
'There is no substitute for a little grease under your fingernails.' - Chrenan, 924board.org |
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Ozzie
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 4448
Location: Townsville, Qld. Australia
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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You should get the PET manual. It shows the breakdown of all the parts on these cars.
I have lost the link to the pdf download but someone else may have it.
http://www.cannell.co.uk/Manuals.htm
"O" ring is 911 110 936 00 on an NA.
_________________
Porsche 924 1984 (UK import) NA
Its AUTO and its BLACK
Montego Black on black/red
Engineer of Electro/Mechanical Systems Maintenance |
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OldBrownShoe
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Norwich UK
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:22 am Post subject: Check valve |
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Thanks Ozzie!
The picture on the PET catalogue shows a small two-sided bolt as the check valve. Upon inspecting my old pump, I've found a similar bolt attached on the top
The next is a picture of my new pump installed. Is this the check valve on the upper part of the pump? If not I believe it might be missing from my new pump (?)
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924 2.0L 1978 Euro LHD |
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