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Why do people say engine swaps are so expensive to do?
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Anhaedra  



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:16 pm    Post subject: Why do people say engine swaps are so expensive to do? Reply with quote

If you can weld and do all the fabrication yourself, why would it be very costly? People were saying the same thing about putting a Chevy LT1 in a 928, but as it turns out people meant it cost a lot if you had a shop do it... Other people tell me it is not hard, about a weekend job for two people. Obviously that may be different for the 924 because of the smaller space in the engine bay, probably more custom work needed too.
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RC  



Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 2637
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Why do people say engine swaps are so expensive to do? Reply with quote

Anhaedra wrote:
If you can weld and do all the fabrication yourself, why would it be very costly? People were saying the same thing about putting a Chevy LT1 in a 928, but as it turns out people meant it cost a lot if you had a shop do it... Other people tell me it is not hard, about a weekend job for two people. Obviously that may be different for the 924 because of the smaller space in the engine bay, probably more custom work needed too.


I bet you havent done it yet.

Is your time worth anything to you? And there are varying degrees of workmanship and engineering standards too.

Roger
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Anhaedra  



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Why do people say engine swaps are so expensive to do? Reply with quote

RC wrote:
Anhaedra wrote:
If you can weld and do all the fabrication yourself, why would it be very costly? People were saying the same thing about putting a Chevy LT1 in a 928, but as it turns out people meant it cost a lot if you had a shop do it... Other people tell me it is not hard, about a weekend job for two people. Obviously that may be different for the 924 because of the smaller space in the engine bay, probably more custom work needed too.


I bet you havent done it yet.

Is your time worth anything to you? And there are varying degrees of workmanship and engineering standards too.

Roger


I have lots of free time, and a buddy who wants to help me with it.

Can you elaborate on the workmanship and engineering standards and such? Tons of people do backyard engine swaps, what makes the 924 different?
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Khal  



Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 4872
Location: Sunny and lovely interior BC, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a forum specifically for these questions but I'm bored so I'll indulge you...

Two main factors in the equation, in my personal opinion:

a) The knowledge of how to do the job; If you don't know exactly what you're doing, it's gonna take you some time to figure stuff out (and probably cost you some money in mistakes).

b) The ability to do the job; If you don't have the stuff you need to do the job, it's gonna take some time and money to aquire it.

A minor factor may be the cost of parts. If you know exactly what you want/need and where to get it, and you have the ability to get the parts (i.e. you have the time, money and suppliers) then that cost, while it may be substantial in pure dollar terms compared to the value of the car, may become irrelevant if you're truly commited to doing the swap.

The "some" mentioned in the main factors above is value that I'm guessing no-one on this 'board will be able to define for you. You could put a reasonable guesstimate together, though (meaning YOU, not us!).

Some simple factors:

Do you have the engine you want to swap in? If not, what will it cost you to aquire that engine and how long will it take?

Are you going to go to the local junkyard to get the engine and will you possibly have to rebuild it? If so, how much will that cost and how long will it take?

Will the engine physically fit or do you have to modify it and/or its ancilliaries? And does the body/chassis of the car require modification to fit the engine? i.e. Do you have to relocate the battery, the radiator, modify engine mounts, modify crossmembers or suspension components, modify the firewall, modify the wheel wells and/or the hood? Just to name a few that I can think of off the top of my head. And if you do have to modify them, how do you do that (and above all do it safely)?

Do you have all the ancilliary parts needed to make the engine work? You need to think about simple stuff like the fuel pump you'll need, how you're going mount it and mate it to the existing tank (or are you going to fit a different tank and how will you do that?). Are the existing fuel lines sufficient or will you have to buy and mount new ones? Will you have to change the routing of the fuel lines? Does the engine need an engine management computer or other such devices? And if so, where and how will you mount them?

Do you have to modify the driveline or can you mate the new engine to the existing driveline? (obviously, the latter is the ideal situation) If you do need a new driveline, what parts do you need, do you need to modify them and how do you mount them? Much the same as the questions for the engine above...

And of course after answering all these questions (or at the very least considering them in some depth) then do you actually have the machines and tools (never mind the skills) necessary to do the work?

These cars were never designed to have a V8 Chevy motor and driveline. Mounting them is NOT simply a matter of welding in some mounting points and bolting the parts in, of that I can assure you. Ask Applebit... Nine months (?) and God knows how many dollars and still counting... And he got "the professionals" to it!

Of course, people have done it (and have done it themselves, I think?). PORSCHEV is an example that comes to mind...
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Anhaedra  



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking either the aluminum Rover V8 people talk about, or a rotary. I know both would fit, they're quite small. Well who knows, maybe you're right and I should just get a 928 to do that
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gohim  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 4459
Location: Rialto, CA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want a Chevy engine, buy a Chevy.

If you want a Ford engine, buy a Ford.

If you don't own a Porsche yet, and you don't want a Porsche engine, why buy a Porsche?
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Anhaedra  



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gohim wrote:
If you want a Chevy engine, buy a Chevy.

If you want a Ford engine, buy a Ford.

If you don't own a Porsche yet, and you don't want a Porsche engine, why buy a Porsche?


Because I want to? It's my car, I will do what I like with it. My Jeep Cherokee is faster than my 924, and as I see it, that is a problem that should be addressed.

I am not interested in modding the stock 2.0, as that will likely cost me just as much, while producing less power and less reliability than a Chevy V8.

The 924 engine is a VW Van engine anyway, so I guess it's not a Porsche either?
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Khal  



Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 4872
Location: Sunny and lovely interior BC, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anhaedra wrote:
My Jeep Cherokee is faster than my 924, and as I see it, that is a problem that should be addressed.


I'll bet it's not faster than my Turbo!

And I can guarantee it's not faster than a 944 Turbo or a 968. Why not just buy one of them? Newer and better than a 924 anyway and probably not more expensive than an engine swap when you consider the total price. For that matter, why not buy a last-generation (Series VII?) RX-7? Cheap-ish, not bad lookin' cars and nothing up to (if not including!) a 993 will see which way you went!

(BTW, the digs about the 924 being a VW and having a van engine don't work... to most of us it's a source of pride that so simple a car can be so much bloody fun! If we were badge-snobs we wouldn't being driving 924's )
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tuurbo  



Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 1446
Location: East Windsor, New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I sense you're not really interested in hearing naywayers and you're ready to start the project. You've said:

Quote:
Other people tell me it is not hard, about a weekend job for two people.


lol ok, clock is ticking. Go for it - if these other people are right, we should be hearing 8 screaming pushrod powered pistons by Monday December 24/07 - show us what you got (with datestamps)!
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tuurbo  



Joined: 08 Aug 2007
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Location: East Windsor, New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol sorry I just watched that Pinks episode last night where the fat guy in the 924 V8 couldn't make it down the track for even a single pass and if not for the charity of others would have lost his car, lol...
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Cone_Eater  



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 126
Location: Marshfield, MO

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I watched it too... Funny... The point of buying a 924 is to enjoy what it is for what it is. If you wanted an American V8 buy a Camaro, TransAm, or a Mustang. I do like some conversions but the point of a 924 or 924s is their handling ability. They are not made to drag race but are made to turn. When you swap out the engine to a rotary or an American V8 you ruin the essence of the car. It becomes nothing more then a Frankenstein project. (FYI: he ended up killing his creator) I don't mean to offend anyone but it is no longer a Porsche if it doesn’t have a Porsche heart.
My two cents... I don't mean to offend anyone
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gohim  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
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Location: Rialto, CA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously another one of Timstar other brothers...

Looks like there will be another source/donor parts available for parts soon...
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Andrew NZ  



Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 744
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cone_Eater wrote:
I don't mean to offend anyone but it is no longer a Porsche if it doesn’t have a Porsche heart.
My two cents... I don't mean to offend anyone


Not offended, but I had to laugh when I looked down to see that you had a 924S, not one of the humble VW/Audi engines like the rest of us!! Yours might have had a real Porsche heart when it left the factory, but mine certainly didn't, so mine obviously isn't a "real" Porsche
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Min  



Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 2368
Location: Vernon, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am not interested in modding the stock 2.0, as that will likely cost me just as much, while producing less power and less reliability than a Chevy V8.


Raceboys results tell a entirely different story.

As someone who attempted a chevy v8 swap into a 924, I can tell you first hand that its not a weekend job. Unless of course you can work every single hour of the weekend without any sleep and have all the parts in a pile ready to install.

There is a big difference between putting a motor that doesn't belong into a car it wasn't designed to fit in. And doing it properly. I've seen a 4.3 chevy v6 swap into a 924 turbo, the drive shaft didn't fit into the pilot bushing, so they took a -angle grinder- to it to 'make it fit' thats an example of getting it done in a weekend for you. I've got whats left of that car in my backyard.

Min
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1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting.
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
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Location: Romania

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

..go do some custom work and put that engine in...then come here and talk about it. until then....go away...you're wasting Khal's precious time..
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