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Anhaedra

Joined: 02 Aug 2007 Posts: 32
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:16 pm Post subject: Why do people say engine swaps are so expensive to do? |
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| If you can weld and do all the fabrication yourself, why would it be very costly? People were saying the same thing about putting a Chevy LT1 in a 928, but as it turns out people meant it cost a lot if you had a shop do it... Other people tell me it is not hard, about a weekend job for two people. Obviously that may be different for the 924 because of the smaller space in the engine bay, probably more custom work needed too. |
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RC

Joined: 25 Mar 2007 Posts: 2637 Location: Australia
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: Why do people say engine swaps are so expensive to do? |
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| Anhaedra wrote: | | If you can weld and do all the fabrication yourself, why would it be very costly? People were saying the same thing about putting a Chevy LT1 in a 928, but as it turns out people meant it cost a lot if you had a shop do it... Other people tell me it is not hard, about a weekend job for two people. Obviously that may be different for the 924 because of the smaller space in the engine bay, probably more custom work needed too. |
I bet you havent done it yet.
Is your time worth anything to you? And there are varying degrees of workmanship and engineering standards too.
Roger |
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Anhaedra

Joined: 02 Aug 2007 Posts: 32
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Why do people say engine swaps are so expensive to do? |
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| RC wrote: | | Anhaedra wrote: | | If you can weld and do all the fabrication yourself, why would it be very costly? People were saying the same thing about putting a Chevy LT1 in a 928, but as it turns out people meant it cost a lot if you had a shop do it... Other people tell me it is not hard, about a weekend job for two people. Obviously that may be different for the 924 because of the smaller space in the engine bay, probably more custom work needed too. |
I bet you havent done it yet.
Is your time worth anything to you? And there are varying degrees of workmanship and engineering standards too.
Roger |
I have lots of free time, and a buddy who wants to help me with it.
Can you elaborate on the workmanship and engineering standards and such? Tons of people do backyard engine swaps, what makes the 924 different? |
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Khal

Joined: 26 Sep 2003 Posts: 4872 Location: Sunny and lovely interior BC, Canada
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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There's a forum specifically for these questions but I'm bored so I'll indulge you...
Two main factors in the equation, in my personal opinion:
a) The knowledge of how to do the job; If you don't know exactly what you're doing, it's gonna take you some time to figure stuff out (and probably cost you some money in mistakes).
b) The ability to do the job; If you don't have the stuff you need to do the job, it's gonna take some time and money to aquire it.
A minor factor may be the cost of parts. If you know exactly what you want/need and where to get it, and you have the ability to get the parts (i.e. you have the time, money and suppliers) then that cost, while it may be substantial in pure dollar terms compared to the value of the car, may become irrelevant if you're truly commited to doing the swap.
The "some" mentioned in the main factors above is value that I'm guessing no-one on this 'board will be able to define for you. You could put a reasonable guesstimate together, though (meaning YOU, not us!).
Some simple factors:
Do you have the engine you want to swap in? If not, what will it cost you to aquire that engine and how long will it take?
Are you going to go to the local junkyard to get the engine and will you possibly have to rebuild it? If so, how much will that cost and how long will it take?
Will the engine physically fit or do you have to modify it and/or its ancilliaries? And does the body/chassis of the car require modification to fit the engine? i.e. Do you have to relocate the battery, the radiator, modify engine mounts, modify crossmembers or suspension components, modify the firewall, modify the wheel wells and/or the hood? Just to name a few that I can think of off the top of my head. And if you do have to modify them, how do you do that (and above all do it safely)?
Do you have all the ancilliary parts needed to make the engine work? You need to think about simple stuff like the fuel pump you'll need, how you're going mount it and mate it to the existing tank (or are you going to fit a different tank and how will you do that?). Are the existing fuel lines sufficient or will you have to buy and mount new ones? Will you have to change the routing of the fuel lines? Does the engine need an engine management computer or other such devices? And if so, where and how will you mount them?
Do you have to modify the driveline or can you mate the new engine to the existing driveline? (obviously, the latter is the ideal situation) If you do need a new driveline, what parts do you need, do you need to modify them and how do you mount them? Much the same as the questions for the engine above...
And of course after answering all these questions (or at the very least considering them in some depth) then do you actually have the machines and tools (never mind the skills) necessary to do the work?
These cars were never designed to have a V8 Chevy motor and driveline. Mounting them is NOT simply a matter of welding in some mounting points and bolting the parts in, of that I can assure you. Ask Applebit... Nine months (?) and God knows how many dollars and still counting... And he got "the professionals" to it!
Of course, people have done it (and have done it themselves, I think?). PORSCHEV is an example that comes to mind... _________________ '80 924 Turbo |
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Anhaedra

Joined: 02 Aug 2007 Posts: 32
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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I was thinking either the aluminum Rover V8 people talk about, or a rotary. I know both would fit, they're quite small. Well who knows, maybe you're right and I should just get a 928 to do that  |
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gohim
Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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If you want a Chevy engine, buy a Chevy.
If you want a Ford engine, buy a Ford.
If you don't own a Porsche yet, and you don't want a Porsche engine, why buy a Porsche? |
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Anhaedra

Joined: 02 Aug 2007 Posts: 32
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| gohim wrote: | If you want a Chevy engine, buy a Chevy.
If you want a Ford engine, buy a Ford.
If you don't own a Porsche yet, and you don't want a Porsche engine, why buy a Porsche? |
Because I want to? It's my car, I will do what I like with it. My Jeep Cherokee is faster than my 924, and as I see it, that is a problem that should be addressed.
I am not interested in modding the stock 2.0, as that will likely cost me just as much, while producing less power and less reliability than a Chevy V8.
The 924 engine is a VW Van engine anyway, so I guess it's not a Porsche either? |
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Khal

Joined: 26 Sep 2003 Posts: 4872 Location: Sunny and lovely interior BC, Canada
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Anhaedra wrote: | | My Jeep Cherokee is faster than my 924, and as I see it, that is a problem that should be addressed. |
I'll bet it's not faster than my Turbo!
And I can guarantee it's not faster than a 944 Turbo or a 968. Why not just buy one of them? Newer and better than a 924 anyway and probably not more expensive than an engine swap when you consider the total price. For that matter, why not buy a last-generation (Series VII?) RX-7? Cheap-ish, not bad lookin' cars and nothing up to (if not including!) a 993 will see which way you went!
(BTW, the digs about the 924 being a VW and having a van engine don't work... to most of us it's a source of pride that so simple a car can be so much bloody fun! If we were badge-snobs we wouldn't being driving 924's ) _________________ '80 924 Turbo |
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tuurbo

Joined: 08 Aug 2007 Posts: 1446 Location: East Windsor, New Jersey
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:00 am Post subject: |
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Ok I sense you're not really interested in hearing naywayers and you're ready to start the project. You've said:
| Quote: | | Other people tell me it is not hard, about a weekend job for two people. |
lol ok, clock is ticking. Go for it - if these other people are right, we should be hearing 8 screaming pushrod powered pistons by Monday December 24/07 - show us what you got (with datestamps)! _________________ 1980 924 turbo, MSD, Meth. Inj, otherwise stock. |
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tuurbo

Joined: 08 Aug 2007 Posts: 1446 Location: East Windsor, New Jersey
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| lol sorry I just watched that Pinks episode last night where the fat guy in the 924 V8 couldn't make it down the track for even a single pass and if not for the charity of others would have lost his car, lol... |
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Cone_Eater

Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 126 Location: Marshfield, MO
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:07 am Post subject: |
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I watched it too... Funny... The point of buying a 924 is to enjoy what it is for what it is. If you wanted an American V8 buy a Camaro, TransAm, or a Mustang. I do like some conversions but the point of a 924 or 924s is their handling ability. They are not made to drag race but are made to turn. When you swap out the engine to a rotary or an American V8 you ruin the essence of the car. It becomes nothing more then a Frankenstein project. (FYI: he ended up killing his creator) I don't mean to offend anyone but it is no longer a Porsche if it doesn’t have a Porsche heart.
My two cents... I don't mean to offend anyone _________________ 1988 924S: Koni fully adjustables, Short shift kit, head work, exhaust, K&N, Jacobs ignition, Larger Injectors, Performance Chip, 928 wheels with cooper Zeon tires, Momo interior, Etc.....
If its fast enough to go... its fast enough to blow. |
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gohim
Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:43 am Post subject: |
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Obviously another one of Timstar other brothers...
Looks like there will be another source/donor parts available for parts soon... |
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Andrew NZ

Joined: 22 Jun 2004 Posts: 744 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| Cone_Eater wrote: | I don't mean to offend anyone but it is no longer a Porsche if it doesn’t have a Porsche heart.
My two cents... I don't mean to offend anyone |
Not offended, but I had to laugh when I looked down to see that you had a 924S, not one of the humble VW/Audi engines like the rest of us!! Yours might have had a real Porsche heart when it left the factory, but mine certainly didn't, so mine obviously isn't a "real" Porsche  _________________ Andrew
1977 RX924 race car
12a bridgeport supercharged
www.race4-dcup.co.nz |
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Min

Joined: 04 Nov 2002 Posts: 2368 Location: Vernon, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I am not interested in modding the stock 2.0, as that will likely cost me just as much, while producing less power and less reliability than a Chevy V8. |
Raceboys results tell a entirely different story.
As someone who attempted a chevy v8 swap into a 924, I can tell you first hand that its not a weekend job. Unless of course you can work every single hour of the weekend without any sleep and have all the parts in a pile ready to install.
There is a big difference between putting a motor that doesn't belong into a car it wasn't designed to fit in. And doing it properly. I've seen a 4.3 chevy v6 swap into a 924 turbo, the drive shaft didn't fit into the pilot bushing, so they took a -angle grinder- to it to 'make it fit' thats an example of getting it done in a weekend for you. I've got whats left of that car in my backyard.
Min _________________ Custom means it didn't come from a box.
1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting. |
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morghen

Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 9095 Location: Romania
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:57 am Post subject: |
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..go do some custom work and put that engine in...then come here and talk about it. until then....go away...you're wasting Khal's precious time.. _________________ Supercharger and EFI kits
https://www.the924.com |
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