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bass gt
Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 971
Location: Johannesburg for now!!
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 Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:24 am Post subject: |
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Roger,
So what cam are you going for then? Stock, Improved stock?
BTW, is this going on an N/A or Turbo??
Steve
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Front Wheel Drive is the Devil's work. |
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RC
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 2637
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:39 am Post subject: |
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Rasta Monsta wrote:
| Quote: | | Excellent, how long til you think it's together? I have a bare head sitting in my garage ready for overhaul, and I am very interested to see how this goes. |
Only just ordered the cam and shipping to Oz will take 1-2 weeks after they grind it so will be up to a month away in NA form. Also have new lifters on their way from the UK.
In the interim I am working out the supercharger mounting brackets and drive set up. Also have a modded intake manifold at the welders which has come to a pause for at least a few weeks untill he can repair his small torch to access a tight spot. Still have to finalize the IC details and get that welded too. Hopefully I may be driving it at xmas time. 
IMHO it may not be worth $330 (plus lifters ideally) for a few degrees less overlap and slightly less aggressive acceleration/deceleration ramps than the stock one unless you don`t have one. Personally, and along with Steve Gruenwald and Endwrench, I dont think any other cam available would offer as much low to mid range torque and street driveability or fuel economy too as this design. The same requirements are shared with the turbo application, again verified by Steve and other knowledgeable authors.
Bass gt wrote:
| Quote: | Roger,
So what cam are you going for then? Stock, Improved stock?
BTW, is this going on an N/A or Turbo??
Steve |
The cam is an improved stock (225°@0.050", 260°@0.015", 0.478" 12.14mm lift) ground on 112° lobe centres. The spacing is 2° up on stock, duration is 2° up @ 0.050 while 5° over advertised. Lift is only 6 thou more than integrals stock measurement which seems more generous than other references.
This is going in a supercharged Euro NA with ported head, EFI, headers and freeflow 2 1/2" exhaust. In NA form this engine was often taken to 7K with the stock bump stick. I know I will have to limit the redline with the blower. Really want as much torque spread as possible since it is relatively easy to change a pulley for more, especially up top.
For a short while was running with a cam of 290° advertised, 239°@ 0.050 on 107° LC and set the limiter at 7.5K. Was so disappointed with this as it had nothing below 5-6K, couldnt pull a greasy stick out of a dogs bum and didnt take a dyno to tell me it generated less usable overall power than a stock cam.
Steve, have been thinking about your idea of a cam with increased lift, to improve cylinder filling, while maintaining realistic duration and overlap to avoid blowing a large portion out the exhaust. While probably ideal for a race car, would have to cause faster wear on a street driven car. My understanding is that every individual profile has to first have a master manufactured for the grinder to follow. Having seen them at different grinding companies and also on Integrals home or info page, they are around say 4"x6'' big and machined on flat plate. I dont have sponsors to fund the development, but maybe these days the grinders can be directly CNC. Something to speak to Steve about. BTW I note Integrals 944 designs are not his intellectual property and sales are via business that financed the development. Something to look into perhaps. Good luck with it and your racing.
Roger |
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11733
Location: PacNW
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:12 am Post subject: |
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BUMP. . .don't want this thread to fall off the charts. I have a spare head and new lifters waiting for the correct cam choice. . .and for almost $1k, it's an agonizing one!
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Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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RC
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 2637
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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OK, finally got this thing today. Had to wait a few weeks as Integral had no blanks in stock and their next batch were at the heat treaters. Then they had to grind it and ship it half way around the world.
It was worth the wait. F?*k it looks nice. Better than nice - It looks HOT! If I was a chick it would get me all wet between the legs. 
What do you think?
If this can goes as good as it looks I will be as happy as a pig in crap. And a fast little piggy at that!
Roger |
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Tiny
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 502
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:40 am Post subject: |
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get it on...bang a gong, get it on..!! = ]
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endwrench
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 1631
Location: Victor, Montana
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:28 am Post subject: |
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Ya, I'd do it  |
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11733
Location: PacNW
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:45 am Post subject: |
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Todd, you cam-stuffer.
So what is your install schedule? Can't wait to hear what you think.
Also, are you having the cam 'bearing' surfaces checked by a machinist? What is the procedure on these damn things when out of spec? Deck the caps and cap mating surfaces and line-bore?
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Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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RC
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 2637
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:09 am Post subject: |
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Intend to lay it in and do an initial check of valve clearances today or tomorrow. Hope it works out OK as I`m concerned I may not be able to get sufficient valve clearance. I also have new cam followers that are slightly higher than the old ones that were refaced. Also the old cam was reground and had 8 or 10 thou removed from the base circle. After a cut on the valve seat face (3 angle cut but its the 45° one) and relapping the valves found I still only needed the 0 notch adjuster on all 4 of either the intake or exhaust, cant recall which now. Only have 6 of the 0 notch ones anyway but decided to wait and check before I ordered any more. Hmmm.......
The bearing surfaces themselves are quite reasonable with only slight scoring. May as well lay a straight edge across them and confirm trueness. Also have a dial gauge but I trust integrals integrity and craftsmanship.
The only practical option is a line bore if they are out and this will obviously lower the cam line. Would also be possible to have it sleeved or custom bearings fitted at great expense and most people would just junk the head. I wont have this problem.
Will still be a few weeks till its up and running in NA form yet. Am still waiting on a engine mount, cam belt, oil tube elbow etc, etc thats coming from the US. Another holdup is my custom intake manifold that is 3/4 welded but my welders little stubby TIG torch that is needed to access a tight spot is broken and he himself is waiting for parts from Europe before he can even get his small welder going. Then I have to finish (only just started) the SC mounts and drive. Think xmas time may be a bit optimistic now.  Spending more time in the garage and less time on the computer will speed things up too.
Roger |
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morghen
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 9102
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:50 am Post subject: |
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say....wich lobes are pointier ? intake or exhaust?
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RC
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 2637
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:01 am Post subject: |
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The lobes appear to be slightly more rounded than the Porsche one so hopefully they wont wear as quick either. Intake and exhaust look the same and my digi calipers and the spec sheet confirm that they are the same profile on this particular grind.
Roger |
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Min
Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 2368
Location: Vernon, British Columbia, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| RC wrote: | | It was worth the wait. F?*k it looks nice. Better than nice - It looks HOT! If I was a chick it would get me all wet between the legs. |
Thats almost exactly what I thought when I pulled my integral cam out of the box.
Min
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1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting. |
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11733
Location: PacNW
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:32 am Post subject: |
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Yes, yes? How goes it?
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Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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cellsitedude
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 15
Location: Northern Utah
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:09 am Post subject: Paving the way |
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All this talk on cams got me thinking.
I have many plans for my project 79- NA and like many people I plan to do things in stages. I do not plan on racing so I do not need anything wild.
After exhaust, heads and intake are cleaned up and flow better I would like to install a cam. But I eventually plan to go with a super charger after paving the way with EFI.
Now my question.. Would it be best to wait on the cam after super charging? Or is there a cam that one can choose that will work good with NA and still be a good choice after super charging? Or should I match the cam with the current induction type of the engine at the time?
What have you guys done and when did you install your cams?
Thanks
WN |
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endwrench
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 1631
Location: Victor, Montana
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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With a supercharger the cam RC has chosen would be perfect for both NA and supercharged. The cam is actually designed for NA.
Todd
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'79 924NA. Rebuilt 9.5:1, MSDS header, Mega Squirt Injection, MJLJ-EDIS Ignition, 1.6L Whipple Charger and Intercooler, 10lbs Boost, 944 Trans, Custom HD Clutch.
"simsport" said....superchargers are better than turbos its official!.... |
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RC
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 2637
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| Rasta Monsta wrote: | | Yes, yes? How goes it? |
Well at the moment Rasta, it doesnt! 
The cam is only one of the many things ive changed and that was just a necessity rather than a choice since the other one and the lifters were F`d.
Its in, and set up, but there were a few hassles to overcome along the way. None the fault of the cam, and I wont go into it here but will start another thread or 2 soon.
Cant fire it up yet as I`m still without a manifold (at the welders) and my crank pulley is merely a solid block of aluminium. At least another week yet! 
Progress so far:
Cellsitedude wrote:
| Quote: | All this talk on cams got me thinking.
I have many plans for my project 79- NA and like many people I plan to do things in stages. I do not plan on racing so I do not need anything wild.
After exhaust, heads and intake are cleaned up and flow better I would like to install a cam. But I eventually plan to go with a super charger after paving the way with EFI.
Now my question.. Would it be best to wait on the cam after super charging? Or is there a cam that one can choose that will work good with NA and still be a good choice after super charging? Or should I match the cam with the current induction type of the engine at the time?
What have you guys done and when did you install your cams?
Thanks
WN |
Well I cant speak for anyone else here, and opinions will vary regarding camshaft selection. My intentions are similar to yours only my circumstances varied in that it was necessary to replace my existing hard faced and stock reground cam and lifters, and I wished to replace it only once with the most suitable cam available, for MY purpose. Being wide torque spread and retaining or gaining low and mid range while gaining overall with boost. Read the whole thread for a better understanding.
Do a search on the subject and possibly you will conclude as I did that unless you want a very radical NA for racing there is little point, and virtually nothing to be gained, by replacing the stock grind. Myself and others have tried and been disappointed with the results.
Supercharger or turbo specific grinds differ from performance NA in the areas of duration and especially overlap. While more may improve cylinder filling on a NA it is merely blowing power and money out the exhaust in a boosted application.
Personally in your situation I would not change the cam if you intend to blow it. Sure the grind I selected may be more reliable, have a slightly flatter powerband, minimal improvement in economy and marginally better acceleration and drivability but is the total changeover worth nearly a grand to you?
Roger |
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