924Board.org

kevmcc · Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 2 Location: north east

here's a question for my fellow 924 fans

i bought an 87 924 and had a reputable porsche mechanic change a head gasket for me.

the first long trip i took after the repair (one week later) the car caught fire and was totalled because of a hole in the camshaft cover. (see attached image)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/20996120@N04/

needless to say this hole was not there when i left on my trip.

i am no mechanic but my guess is the tech tightened the camshaft cover bolts beyond their torque, this caused a weakness in the metal of the cover which cracked when hot.

neither the mechanic nor i have ever seen anything like this, but, more importantly, the mechanic is adamant this hole has nothing to do with his head gasket repair, and is refusing to refund the head gasket repair bill.

prior to the repair the car was driven 125,000 miles without incident.

any thoughts or similar experiences (the hole, not the mechanic).

[/img]

Paul · Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject:

I've never seen damage like that before!! BTW that's the camshaft housing.

Did someone hit it with a hammer, or drop it? The bolts would strip the threads in the head long before overtightening them could cause that damage.
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

Smoothie · Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject:

Wow, that's nutty, eh? I'm going to throw a wild scenario out there and say something hard was left under the valve cover that eventually bounced its' way over then got between the cam and the cover, that cam lobe came around and popped it through the cover. How's that sound?

How does that cause a fire though? -Or it did it cause one to get so pissed-off that they set their own car on fire?

_________________
"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."

'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox

Paul · Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:13 pm Post subject:

Oil burns very well....especially after the fire burns through the fuel hoses.
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

Paul · Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:14 pm Post subject:

There's not much evidence of a fire in those pictures. Probably caused a lot of smoke though.
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

kevmcc · Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 2 Location: north east

yes, the oil spewing out the camshaft caught fire and the car was history.

all i know is this:

i checked oil and water before leaving on a three hour trip, car drove fab for first two hours then caught fire. hole was not there when i checked fluids...i would have seen it....

no unusual noises from engine prior to fire....

Paul · Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject:

Did the car continue to run normally until you shut it off?
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

RC · Joined: 25 Mar 2007 Posts: 2637 Location: Australia

Oh sh!t

Agree with Smoothies hypothesis. Not a forensic scientist but due to the outward taper on the edges of the hole conclude that the impact was from inside rather than outside.

Would suggest having a qualified independent engineer remove the cam cover and photograph any evidence such as a set of feeler gauges or spanner that was left inside. Then see a good attorney.

Roger

endwrench · Joined: 07 Dec 2002 Posts: 1631 Location: Victor, Montana

That is a strange one. Being a mechanic I may be a little biased but I think the he correct until you can prove otherwise. This is definetly not a standard failure. I also think smoothie is on to something. It looks to me what ever poked that hole came from the inside. You need to pull that cover and see if it still in there. The mechanic may have left a wrench or socket under the cover. If you don't have a broken or missing part in there I would be more apt to point the finger at the mechanic.

Todd
_________________
'79 924NA. Rebuilt 9.5:1, MSDS header, Mega Squirt Injection, MJLJ-EDIS Ignition, 1.6L Whipple Charger and Intercooler, 10lbs Boost, 944 Trans, Custom HD Clutch.
"simsport" said....superchargers are better than turbos its official!....

Paul · Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:42 pm Post subject:

Todd, I agree that where I was headed by asking if the car kept running normally which would imply that it was not a broken cam lobe or lifter.
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

Tigger937 · Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: engine fire

joecitizennn · Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 2096 Location: no mans land

I have "seen" that before. I didnt actually see it, but I had a fellow describe the incident to me in great detail. He was heading down the interstate in a 944 and all of a sudden there was a bang, and a huge smoke cloud started spewing from his car. He shut the engine off and coasted off an exit ramp, popped the hood and jumped out. No sooner did he look into the engine compartment the grass and pool of oil under the car caught fire. He jumped back in the car, started it up and backed onto the pavement and away from the grass fire(yeah the car still ran). The car never caught fire, and he replaced the cam tower and got alot of driving out of the car yet.

What happened was a bolt came loose inside the tower and the cam shoved it through the housing. The oil gushed out onto the exhaust. Until now that is the only occence like that I had ever heard of.

My opinion, is that your mechanic did not properly torq one of the upper cam tower bolts and it vibrated out and got in a dispute with the cam.
_________________
87 924s
88 924SE gone
447 hp cgt clone
87 924S gone
84 944 sold
83 944 sold
89 turbo S LSD, ABS etc
86 951 white rocket
85 944 sport everything.
84 944 sold.
87 944 sold

Rasta Monsta · Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 11733 Location: PacNW

joecitizennn · Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 2096 Location: no mans land

If it was not a improperly tightened bolt, it may have been a dropped bolt. Changing the cam tower can be a bitch, because you have to use a long allen estension to reach the bolts within the cover. You need to put grease on the tool to keep the bolt from falling into the tower. He may have dropped a bolt, could not get it with his magnet, and thought "f*k it" nobody will notice, and put the cap back on.

I would tell him you know what happened to your car, and ask him what he is going to do about it.
_________________
87 924s
88 924SE gone
447 hp cgt clone
87 924S gone
84 944 sold
83 944 sold
89 turbo S LSD, ABS etc
86 951 white rocket
85 944 sport everything.
84 944 sold.
87 944 sold

sparky · Joined: 27 Nov 2002 Posts: 772 Location: Malta

Get a certified mechanic to strip and document everything when your in the discovery stage, then when you find the fault, take all your documentation to your previous mechanic and try and recover all your costs.. You can get your mechanic to watch if he wants, that way there will hopefully be less friction. But remember, the most important thing is you were not injured in anyway, besides cars can be fixed

Good luck with all this.. Its very unlucky experience

Welcome to the coolest board on the planet btw

_________________
When the checkered flag drops... The Bull$hit Stops

1976 Euro 924 (The 945)

- Full 951 Brakes/Suspension

1998 Boxster with goodies
2002 3.0 Xtype 4wd sport