924Board.org

JB 924 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 606 Location: Hessen, Germany

Okay,

I posted a question here before and you guys helped me out so here I go again:

I drove my car today for the first time ever. It's a '78 NA. First it seemed to run really good and I floored it and it
really took off, but then after maybe 10 more minutes it was just barely moving anymore. Accelerating from first felt
like it was in 4th gear because it was so slow and it had no power at all. So my dad and me stopped the car and popped
the hood and the exhaust manifold was glowing red.
Also, the engine was steaming a little and the coolant tank was spilling coolant, so I don't know, is there some kind
of container connected to it that "balances" the fluid out when it gets hot? I did the timing belt just recently and I
also took the cover off and checked and cylinder one had both valves closed, so the timing is good, although I didn't
have the chance to check the ignition timing yet since I don't have the right tools.

Does anyone know what it is or has anyone had the same problem?

Could it be the cylinder head gasket or spark plugs? Thanks in advance!

Paul · Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:09 pm Post subject:

Could be:

clogged exhaust system
late ignition timing
running lean

Pull your spark plugs, are they white and blistered?
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

PORSCHEV · Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:09 pm Post subject:

The glowing manifold and lack of power tells me the timing is off. Not a big deal...a good ear can set the timing at the distrbutor....that is if your not off the belt timing.
_________________
1976 924
5 lug conversion, 17'C2 wheels,custom body work,327 vette engine.

1978-#53 "D" track racer.

Mannghi · Joined: 11 Nov 2002 Posts: 99 Location: Allentown, PA

Since you recently changed the timing belt, the timing is where I'd start looking first.
You may have gotten the cam gear out of sync. Refer to the Haynes manual, but I belive the dot on the back of the cam gear should line up with the pointer on the valve cover when #1 cylinder is at TDC. Check and adjust the timing if necessary, use a strobe, that way you know it's right.

I'd check the spark plugs to make sure they're still in good condtion, and top off the coolant if you lost any. Make sure you didn't melt any wires near the exhaust manifold.( I cooked the #1 plug wire this way, also one of the wires to the starter)

If you think that it's running lean I would consult the Haynes manual about adjusting the fuel mixture via the CO adjustment.
Keep track of your adjustments so you can find your way back to your initial setting if the adjustment doesn't help.

Good Hunting!

JB 924 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 606 Location: Hessen, Germany

I just started the car cause I had to move it from the driveway and the car again didn't have any power. So I checked the vacuum advance device by the distributor, which I also did yesterday. I took it out, and the little "pin" inside the distributor was not in the hole, so I fixed that and it started right up.
Without it connected, I can only keep the car going by flooring it and it only goes to about 800rpm. I also drove it back up the driveway and it did go fast, so I think I know why it didn't wanna go fast yesterday.
I didn't have a chance to check the plugs yet because I have to get t o school and I can't find the right tools, but I'll do that when I come home and I'm gonna get some new ones.
I'll also check the manual if the car is running too rich and see if I can get a strobe light.
Thanks

Ozzie · Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:46 am Post subject:

Bypass the thermo switch on the radiator for a couple of seconds and check the rad fan is running.
_________________
Porsche 924 1984 (UK import) NA
Its AUTO and its BLACK
Montego Black on black/red
Engineer of Electro/Mechanical Systems Maintenance

Slam · Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:50 am Post subject:

Hmmm... when you had your timing belt off did you check your water pump?

Sounds like a clogged cat and/or lean running. Have a muffler shop cut out the cat and weld in either a straight pipe or resonator where it was. I find it strange the car ran well for the first ten minutes before bogging. As if the problem came on when the car warmed up. Clogged fuel filter?

As long as the cam mark shows TDC and the crank shows TDC you're timed there.

Do a search on removing the emissions control junk from the car. This made a big difference to our 77.5 NA, and here in Alberta it's not a worry.

Also, were your cooling fans coming on properly? What did your temp gauge tell you as the car bogged down? When you had the cam cover off, did you retorque the head bolts?

Sorry - lots of questions. The more info you can give us the better. And there are some very knowledgable guys on this site.

If you need more help I can hook you up with a very cool guy who lives close to you, or myself and my wife could come out sometime. Lemme know.
_________________
'84 944 - kid blew motor
'83 944 - resting comfortably. For 12 years
'87 944 - sideswiped by trucker
'80 924 - gone
'78 924 - gone
'77 924 - rusting comfortably

JB 924 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 606 Location: Hessen, Germany

Hey Slam,

ya I did check the timing on the crank and the cam and both showed TDC.
I haven't checked the fans yet if they are running but I'll definitely check that like Ozzie said.
When the car started to bog down, the temp gauge was in the red area, which is why I pulled over
and drove it home. When I put the cam cover on, I didn't torque them to 5.8 ft-lb what it's supposed
to be because I don't have a torque wrench right now. i would have to borrow it from my neighbour again.
As for the cat, when I told a guy at work that my manifold was glowing red, he also said that it's probably
the cat, so I'll see if I can take it out.

BTW, you need a cat to get the car through inspection in Alberta, right?

Slam · Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:37 pm Post subject:

The fans are an easy check - just bridge the contacts on the thermo switch on the top driver's side of the rad. Look right beside and below the headlight assembly on that side. A screwdriver will work here.

If you overheated the motor you might want to do a compression check. May have warped something. I know the 944s are extremely susceptible to this. Then again, they're all aluminum. If you were timed right then take that off the list.

I've never had a car smogged in the whole time I've been in Aberta.

BTW - what color is your 924?

Ozzie was very helpful to me when I took the emissions off our 924. He's got a good diagram of what you should leave on the car. Basically ends up being ignition advance/retard and engine block breather.
_________________
'84 944 - kid blew motor
'83 944 - resting comfortably. For 12 years
'87 944 - sideswiped by trucker
'80 924 - gone
'78 924 - gone
'77 924 - rusting comfortably

JB 924 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 606 Location: Hessen, Germany

Hey Slam,

I will check the fans tomorrow, since it's been raining. And the color of my 924 is Maroon Red.
Ya, I know, not exactly breath taking. It used to be Porsche brown, that ugly dark, but the
previous owner had it repainted. I hope that I get some time soon and then I'll paint it
black and airbrush flames on it like Mike Lavallee does from killerpaint.
(http://www.killerpaint.com/flash/killerpaint_flash_index.html)

As for the emissions stuff, you said it made a big difference on you car.
Did it give you more power, or just lots of less weight? I don't know
if I wanna remove all the stuff, I would feel bad about the environment.
But maybe that's just cause I'm from Europe.

Slam · Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:20 pm Post subject:

Maroon red? With the 924 Turbo spoiler on the hatch? Did you buy the car from a guy in Millet? I'm curious because I wanted to add that car to our stable but by the time I called on it, it was gone. Like we need more Porsches...

Removing the emissions did both, but the effects are not earth-shattering. The car runs smoother and seems a little more peppy. 924s are not known for being fast, though. I live in the middle of redneck oil country, and compared to our cat-less cars, the obscenely huge oilfield trucks around here do far more damage to the air than we ever would. I don't feel bad. In fact, your mileage may improve.
_________________
'84 944 - kid blew motor
'83 944 - resting comfortably. For 12 years
'87 944 - sideswiped by trucker
'80 924 - gone
'78 924 - gone
'77 924 - rusting comfortably

Chrenan · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 3903 Location: Canada

Glowing manifold can be a lean condition as mentioned above, your timing may be way off. I'd pull the timing belt off and re-install to be sure you aren't off a couple of teeth. Then be sure the distributor mark points to the TDC line when the cam and crank pulley are at TDC. That will get you running. Past that I like to use a timing light, but some folks can set timing with their ears.

Remove your v-belt from the water pump and check the play in the shaft, if there is any the pump could be on its way out. If there is any rattling or catching while turning the water pump pulley by hand, the impellar could be broken off the shaft.

You can take your cat off and smash out the inards so it is a straight path. If it is original it could be clogged and may be causing too much back pressure. Better yet is to replace it with a straight pipe, you can order one from the states for $30 or a local welder can fab one up for you. I ordered a bolt in straight pipe from Performance Products and it has held up well.
_________________
1987 951 - M193 Version for Japan

JB 924 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 606 Location: Hessen, Germany

I'm trying to get my hands on a timing light so I can check but Napa doesn't have one so I might
wait till next week and bring it to school or ask my neighbour if he has one.

And ya Slam, I was wondering why you asked the color of the car and if you
saw it in the Autotrader. It is the one from Millet! I saw it on the net at lunch, called the guy
right after school, and bought it the next morning. I
had been looking at a 951 for over a year, but you know how expensive
they are here. You might as well use the money for a down payment on a
Boxster.

In case you were wondering, I don't wanna sell because if I did, I would have
to buy just another crappy car that always needs fixin'. I'd rather drive a
Porsche that needs TLC than something else.

Slam · Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:44 pm Post subject:

Congrats on the car! Given the asking price, you couldn't help but get a good deal. And by the look of it (you're here, right?) it's in good hands.

I need another Porsche like I need a lobotomy. It's just that every time I see one I wanna take it home and look after it. Kinda like stray animals. I'm picking up more 944 engine bits soon and then I'll be looking for a blown 944 to restore to health. How long? Who knows. It's an awful disease.

Maybe a lobotomy would put a stop to this madness.

BTW, check out chrenan's engine build thread. You'll drool a little bit.
_________________
'84 944 - kid blew motor
'83 944 - resting comfortably. For 12 years
'87 944 - sideswiped by trucker
'80 924 - gone
'78 924 - gone
'77 924 - rusting comfortably

JB 924 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 606 Location: Hessen, Germany

Ya, I already looked at Chrenan's engine rebuild and it's very nice. It even
got me thinking of rebuilding my engine, but we'll see. I'm kinda
interested in dropping a 20V 5 cylinder in from an Audi 200, but that
might take a while, not just the funds, but finding an Audi.

As for the car, ya, I couldn't have gotten anything better for the price. It
runs, so that's a good thing. I guess there's just a lot of things here and
there. The only major thing I'll have to do is weld in a new driver's side
floor pan since it's all rusted and there's a hole about 8x2". Other than
that, it seems to be fine except the little things.