924Board.org

[Royalty]

I beleive it will. I just want to make sure.
I'm a newb so maybe some one with some clout can confirm it for me.

Thanks a bunch
_________________
Its too bad stupidity isnt painful.

[gohim]

The exhaust manifold will physically fit, BUT it may not seal.

Porsche changed some seals from flat gaskets on the 80 model to sealing rings during production. You can't seal a flat gasket flange to a ring seal flange.

So, you may need to replace more than just the exhaust manifold on the 80 car, if you install an 81 exhaust manifold with a ring seal.

[Royalty]

astounding. P-car knowledge thrives within you.

I bet if you get cut you bleed Gaurds Red. hahhaha

Thanks
_________________
Its too bad stupidity isnt painful.

[-nick]

I'm not so sure that a flat gasket flange wouldn't seal with a crush-ring flange? Without a doubt, the crush-ring flanges seal better, but there's no reason why you can't use a flat gasket in place of one.

Anyway, I believe that _most_ of the '80 cars got the crush-ring flange update. The '81/'82 exhaust manifolds are also updated and reinforced. Just be sure to check for cracks before you buy - look under the #2 runner (where is cracks the worst) and also the #3 runner.

nick

[Royalty]

so ur saying it will work then, as long as the proper washer is used?
_________________
Its too bad stupidity isnt painful.

[Paul]

From our very own FAQs:

http://924.org/techsection/931_turbo.htm

Note
Turbochargers on 1980 models are not interchangeable with those on 1981 models.



Exhaust manifold changes
Exhaust Manifold, Part No. 931 111 093.02, for 1980 cars, has been replaced by reinforced manifold, Part No. 931 111 096 00.

This new-type manifold has recess for fill-in gasket seal in flange to by-pass pipe.

When installing new-type exhaust manifold for the first time, use by-pass pipe, Part No. 931 123 033 04, and fill-in gasket seal, Part No. 931 123 195 00. The new by-pass pipe can be connected to the old manifold without recess.

CAUTION
The fill-in gasket seal and never the old-type gasket must be used on recessed flange connections.

Exhaust manifold studs
If turbo exhaust-manifold studs loosen or break,

install new studs of different material, Part No., 900 081 053 00
also always install new self-locking nuts, Part No., N900 730 01
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

[-nick]

True, but Porsche also says you can only use their $10 nuts on the exhaust when plain copper locknuts work just fine.

Using an o-ring manifold on a non-o-ring turbo with a flat gasket will just give a small gap between the radius of the gasket hole and the radius of the manifold recess. So part of the gasket will be exposed to the exhaust shooting past it. However, the exposed radius is still supported since it sits flush against the turbo radius. Not perfect, but I don't think it's any reason to avoid mating these parts up.

edit- if you're pushing the limits further with higher boost / performance mods, then this is probably not a good idea. The margin of error on all things decreases drastically when you start pushing more power through the motor!

nick

[Benino]

I've been told that the diameter of manifold outlet to J-pipe, and the J-pipe inlet are different on 81-82 than they are in 80 (larger on the later cars). . . So if this is true, you would need to get an 81-2 J-pipe if you are replacing your 80 manifold with an 81-2 part. If anyone can confirm or deny this, it would be cool cuz my 80 has a cracked manifold.
_________________
1980 Porsche 924 N/A USA
1980 Porsche 924 turbo USA
1987 Porsche 944S USA

[Paul]

From my post above (the bypass pipe is also called the J pipe):

When installing new-type exhaust manifold for the first time, use by-pass pipe, Part No. 931 123 033 04, and fill-in gasket seal, Part No. 931 123 195 00. The new by-pass pipe can be connected to the old manifold without recess.
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

[sequential]

NOTE:
We no longer use the sleeves in the ex port, as we have choosen to have a bigger ex port instead. have the port ceramic coated no leaks , no problems.
_________________
928 gts prototype
baby blue engine block
steam in 1,2,3,4 sometimes
cold star issues while on stands
112 whp with new 4 valve head and MIS 2

[Petrol]

A few questions regarding the same subject:

I have a '79 car which will have the version 1 turbo, and a cracked exhaust manifold which I'd like to replace with a new one. With such an '81 manifold I'd need a new bypass pipe and gaskets too then, but will it fit the old turbo? I understand from that tech bulletin that the flanges haven't changed but yet the '80 & '81 turbo's aren't interchangeable? The pics on the original bulletin show a version 1 turbo with triangular gasket, and version 2 & 3 with round gasket...
The turbo no. is 5326 980 7007, originally a german car, I see different no's (970) mentioned, what is the difference?

I'd like to know if it will still fit since I'm having my turbo reconditioned, the company is waiting for my call to start on it and I wouldn't like to waste money on a turbo I can't use afterwards. I don't think it would cost much more to buy a whole new turbo.

[-nick]

I think you'll be find on the turbo flange side. The triangular gasket is a flat metal gasket meant for early versions, the round gasket is a metal crush ring meant to be used with the proper recessed flanges. Just use the metal gasket if you don't have a recess in the manifold or turbo.

I don't remember what the early j-pipe's look like. The latest version uses a flat flange and has ~1inch or so of the pipe sticking out of it. The extra pipe slides inside the manifold slightly. I think the later manifold has a recess to use with the crush ring, while the early manifold doesn't and you use another flat metal gasket.

I've never seen a "980" in the kkk numbers! Is the info plate that is riveted to the turbo blue or red? Blue is original, red means it's been rebuilt. Although they often get rebuilt and don't change tags... Anyway, what are the other numbers? You should see: K26-2470 R 6.10 for a '79 RoW car.

nick

[john h]

You can interchange the early turbo to the later manifold. As pointed out the gaskets are different. Later units use the crush ring, early units run the triangular gasket.

Early turbos had a different compressor wheel which changed the point the boost came in. Later cars had small compressor wheels and spooled up faster.

I've used a turbo off the early car (series I) on my Series II while I was having the GT turbo rebuilt. I left it on the car for about two years (mainly cause it's a realy pain to swap the turbo out on a right hand drive) and had no problems with the gasket leaking or failing. (It's easier to pop the motor to change the turbo in my opinion) I also didn't have to change the J pipe. As far as I can see all three of the J pipes that I have are the same - one is off an early 931 (1979) and the others are off a 1980 and 1981 931. Only difference is the top of one has been welded due to a break in the pipe. What we have found over here is a Toyota Corona exhaust crush ring is the same size as the J pipe crush ring and is about 1/10 of the Porsche part and actually lasts longer than the Porsche unit.

I'll check my records on the KKK numbers but the 7007 sounds familiar - I think that was one of the numbers on my spare turbos. From memory the 7007 uses the same exhaust side as the GTR turbo which was why I kept mine, it has a smaller compressor wheel and is an early 924 turbo turbocharger. The other numbers should be some thing like K26 2470 G4.10 on the KKK plate.
_________________
Remember a Porsche is not just for Christmas,

if you take it to pieces slowly it can provide anguish all year long!

[Petrol]

Thanks for the replies. The plate on the turbo is indeed red, numbers are:

K26-2470R 6.10
88 452 0188
5326 980 7007

The company reconditioning the turbo told me that they will have to change some pieces on the exhaust part of the turbo because KKK doesn't supply the original parts anymore. They will fit newer parts which should give a bit more power, also in the lower revs.

[Smoothie]

The red tag means it was rebuilt by KKK (or possibly in addition, a KKK authorized shop?). Blue tag is either never rebuilt or rebuilt somewhere other than KKK.
_________________
"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."


'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox