924Board.org

rsp13-sideways · Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 14 Location: Fremont, CA

Well I was on my way to class with my 1987 924S and she died on the freeway. There was a fuel leak that I noticed from where the fuel pump line runs to the rear of the gastank. I didn't replace it right away because the leak was extremely minor.

Anyway, the car died on the freeway. I turned it off, waited 2 minutes and it fired right up no problem. I drove it another 1 1/2 miles and it died again. I turned it off and it wouldn't start up again even after waiting 10-15 minutes.

I returned to the car about 2 hours later and it fired right up no problem, drove it all the way to my house and it died on the way up to the drive way. It will not fire up at all anymore even after days of sitting.

Does this sound like a fuel filter problem or maybe the fuel pump? I was thinking it was the fuel pump because it had to work extra hard to get fuel into the system because of the small leak so it died out with the extra stress? Not sure, what do you guys think?

EDIT: The way the car died was slowly having a rough idle until it died all together and then shut off. It felt like the car lost fuel, so I'm guessing it's either spark or fuel.
_________________
-1989 Nissan 240SX - Sil-eighty w/ GT2871R powered SR20DET making 410RWHP.

-1987 Porsche 924S

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

The two most common reason for your problem would be a defective DME relay (which is why many knowledgable drivers carry a known good spare DME relay in the glove box), or a defective brain box (brain box may be salvagable if you simply remove the cover an resolder the entire board).

To verify that the problem is the DME relay, try replacing it. You can try whacking the brain box on the top, and if it is a loose connection, the car may start right up.

rsp13-sideways · Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 14 Location: Fremont, CA

gohim thanks for the much needed reply. I don't have a spare DME relay so where can I pick that up from? Tweeks? Where is the brain box located? Is it in the 924 Technical Section?

Thanks for your help man, I bought some nice Eibach springs for my car, new Koni struts and I was planning on lowering my car this weekend and then this happened!

_________________
-1989 Nissan 240SX - Sil-eighty w/ GT2871R powered SR20DET making 410RWHP.

-1987 Porsche 924S

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

If I were you, I would have spent my money getting the mechanical condition of the car straight before going on an appearance binge.

Are you aware of the maintenance schedule required by the the engines in these cars?

Without getting into a debate with a member of this message board who does not seem to feel that it is very important, I will warn you about the IMPORTANCE of having the complete "front of engine" service performed religiously every 3 years or 30K miles. The danger is that the 2.5L engine is an interference design. Meaning if the timing or balance shaft belt break, or the timing belt rips or skips a tooth, the pistons will meet the valves resulting in $3K-4K in damage to the engine and your wallet.

The cost of this service runs $1.5K to $2.5K depending on where you have it done, or $800-$1K for parts if you are willing to buy $700 in tolls to do the job yourself. You could buy generic parts for less, and jury-rig some tools for less if you are will to take the chance.

P.O. (previous owners) very often did not do the service work, or don't remember when it was done last (if ever). If you don't have written proof that your engine is current on this service. Get it done immediately.

Don't use the Koni Red front struts. They are too soft, and will allow the front of your car to continue to wallow. If you bought them new from a shop, send them back and get Koni Yellow. You should also buy replacement upper front strut rubber mounting/bearings. You are going to find that yours are sagged, and you dont want to leave your car up in the air while you go looking for some.

Someone on this Board has one new mounting/bearing for sale at an excellent prince, in combination with the upper metal mount. You will have to buy the other one from somewhere else. Get a copy of Excellence Magazine and contact some of the Porsche Dealers with tollfree phone numbers for a discounted (from retail) price.

I am not sure, but depending on which Eiback front springs you bought, you may need to reindex or replace the rear torsion bars to balance or level the car. You may be able to use the ride height adjusters in the rear if your new front springs are not too stiff or too low. Especially if you get the Koni Yellows.

You are going to need to replace the rear shocks to match your new front struts and springs. Make sure that you get shocks for a 924S, and not a 924, because the 924 has steel rear trailing arms and the lower mounting holes for the shock are smaller on the 924, than on the 924S and you will have fit problems.

Check the discount authorized Porsche Dealers for all parts before buying from the aftermarket. Many of the aftermarket places buy the parts indirectly from Porsche and you will find that their prices are actually higher than a Discounting Authorized Dealer, and enven some regular authorized Porsche Dealers.

Here in CA, we have Performance Products/Automotion, get their catalog, and check the current price by phone before ordering from somewhere else. Performance Products is one of the few Non-Porsche Dealers who has a volume purchase agreement to buy directly from the Porsche Parts Warehouse, and their prices reflect this advantage when shopping other companies. Mid-America/Tweeks prices are usually higher, and the people who answer their order lines for the most part, do not know anything about Porsches.

For used parts you have Parts Heaven, and EASY (european auto salvage) within driving distance.

rsp13-sideways · Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 14 Location: Fremont, CA

gohim:

Before even thinking about the appearance I need to fix the issue at hand. I am trying to figure out what the problem is so that I can fix it myself. I have enough mechanically ability to do so as I've built plenty Japanese motors and a handful of American. I'm new to these German motors but I'm sure they are generally the same.

My '87 924S has only 48K miles on it and I'm the 2nd owner. The previous owner has all the paperwork for the maintenance. The car sat for a bit in his garage and I took it off his hands. I need to figure out what this problem is so I can get it taken care of. Let me know if you had anything in mind besides the fuses or mainboard.
_________________
-1989 Nissan 240SX - Sil-eighty w/ GT2871R powered SR20DET making 410RWHP.

-1987 Porsche 924S

Paul · Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:29 pm Post subject:

Try the shop manual at this site, it has a lot of good trouble shooting info:

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/ts-01.htm
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

rsp13-sideways · Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 14 Location: Fremont, CA

thank you Paul but the problem doesn't seem to lie in there anywhere.
_________________
-1989 Nissan 240SX - Sil-eighty w/ GT2871R powered SR20DET making 410RWHP.

-1987 Porsche 924S

rsp13-sideways · Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 14 Location: Fremont, CA

So looking into it further it might possibly be the DME sensors. Where can I get those at besides the Porsche Dealer because I'll have to give up an arm and a leg as well..haha. Thanks let me know.
_________________
-1989 Nissan 240SX - Sil-eighty w/ GT2871R powered SR20DET making 410RWHP.

-1987 Porsche 924S

rsp13-sideways · Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 14 Location: Fremont, CA

UPDATE: I just replaced the DME relay to no avail. The car is still not running and it's cranking over and not getting any juice.

I don't think it's the brainbox either gohim. Perhaps a fuel relay or something? Any other suggestions to look into? It just happened all of a sudden and the DME relay sounded like the fix. Unfortunately it was not.
_________________
-1989 Nissan 240SX - Sil-eighty w/ GT2871R powered SR20DET making 410RWHP.

-1987 Porsche 924S

Khal · Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:45 am Post subject:

It's not the fuel pump, by any chance?

I don't know much (anything) about the 924S/944 motor but can you pop a fuel line or injector somewhere and check that the cylinders are actually getting fuel?
_________________
'80 924 Turbo

Stu2j · Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 9:14 am Post subject:

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

How did you determine that the brain box is not the cause of the problem? Did you try knocking on it, replacing it with a know good one, or swapping yours into a running car?

Have you checked to see it the engine is getting spark?

If it is getting spark, that would rule out a problem with the flywheel sensors.

Have you checked the camshaft belt timing to see if it has skipped or jumped time?

Have you tried checking the ignition timing to see if the ignition timing has gone off?

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

Stuj

The guy that started this thread doesn't think that a gas leak is a big deal.

Do you really expect him to read the FAQs, or all the stickies?

Nobody reads all the stickies or the polls at the top of all the Discussion Topics.

Obviously with the influx of new members joining the Board with broken timing belt problems shows that this is and will be a continuing problem that MANY NEW OWNERS ARE NOT AWARE OF OR ARE IGNORING UNTIL IT IS TOO LATE.

In fact, how do you know this the owner of this car does not have a timing belt that has jumped time, or ripped-off a tooth or two from the timing belt?

If you don't have any useful suggestions, why take up the space? Move on, get a life...

Stu2j · Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 6:39 am Post subject:

>>>In fact, how do you know this the owner of this car does not have a timing belt that has jumped

I'm sorry. I failed to realize the extent of your timing belt paranoia.

>>>If you don't have any useful suggestions, why take up the space?

I made a useful suggestion that (ironically) would have saved a ton of space. Since your lengthy incorrect advice about the timing belt was in no way useful, it would seem that you are the one wasting space.

>>>Move on, get a life...

Hmmmm.......

Have a Merry Christmas.

_________________
-Stu
924 owner since 1988
924S owner since 2002
Click here to view them:

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

Stuj

Maybe if you had more experience working on cars, you would realize that many problems stem from the failure to maintain a reasonable service schedule. I don't necessarily mean the published factory maintenance, I mean a maintenance schedule recommended and followed by knowledgable/experienced people who have no financial stake in the service business. By going back and checking on items that have finite service lives (that have caused multiple failures on other cars in the past), and bringing the car up to current maintenance schedule, MANY seemingly strange problems are MAGICALLY SOLVED.

With your extensive history of sending your cars out to be maintained, or repaired by others, how much personal hands-on experience have you had sucessfully working/repairing/troubleshooting ignition systems, fuel systems, timing belts, and the problems that are caused when they fail?

Maybe if you stuck your head under the hood of one of your cars now and then, and knew what you were talking about, you would not be flapping your gums trying to convince people that they can run their cars forever without spending any money on maintenance.

When the cost of failing to inspect, tension, and replace the timing and balance shaft belts on a timely basis is often a huge repair bill resulting in a financial disaster, and/or the scrapping or parting-out of a car, it's simply stupid to ignore or refuse to commit to a maintenance procedure that helps protect the health of the car and the owner's financial investment.

Where is the "useful suggestion" that you gave to the owner of this car? I don't see a single word of advise to the guy about what to check, or where to look for his car's problem/s?

How valuable is the advise you giving to new Board Members when you are telling them to ignore critical maintenance? Many new 2.5L engine owners have no clue that the belts cause problems. Saying the problem does not exist will not pay for their damages and losses, when the new people find out the wrong way, that the timing and balance shaft belts have a finite life measured in months. and K miles, instead on years and millions of miles.

If you choose to ignore what the maintenance schedule followed by others, that's your choice as it's your risk. You are free to tell others who ask for advise the path that you follow, and what you choose to risk. BUT, you should also temper your advise with a warning that what you do goes against conventional wisdom, and may result in the loss of the timing belt, balance shaft belt, and tons of money.