924Board.org

[troglodyte]

I know that I am in the minority on this one, but my favorite modern Porsche is the 968. Most everyone else goes for the 911, but I like the 968 better. But, the 968 costs a lot more than the 924. I have seen a lot of 924s for less than $1000. I thought for such a cheap car that FR that would make a great car to swap in an SR20 and go drifting in. Don't want to spend $20,000 for a drift car only to bang it up every weekend and have it covered with ducktape!

[CBass]

In reality, swapping a small 4 cylinder into a 924 is a pretty simple proposition.

I'm not exactly sure where the mounts are on the SR20DET, so there might be a bit of custom work to get those to fit.

You would require a custom bellhousing, to mate the Porsche driveshaft to the Nissan clutch, and you'd need to chop the splined portion of an input shaft off of a Nissan transmission, and weld it to the Porsche driveshaft.

The 924 has the engine in the front, with the clutch attached to the engine. The driveshaft is housed inside of a rigid case with bearings, called a torque tube, it runs from the clutch to the transmission, which is in the rear of the car. The outer casing of the driveshaft, the torque tube, is designed with a flange on the clutch side, so it can bolt to a bellhousing. You can modify a stock bellhousing if it's the right size, just put an adaptor plate across where the transmission is supposed to bolt up, and bolt the torque tube to the plate, it's just a square flange with 4 bolts. Then just put the hybrid Nissan/Porsche driveshaft into the clutch, and all you have to do is work out the motor mounts.



There will be lots of little things as well, you'll need somewhere to mount the intercooler, and you'll probably want to upgrade the radiator for an aluminum unit with more capacity, and you'd have to convert over to Nissan electronics in much of the car, possibly a Nissan fuel pump as well, I'm not sure what sort of pressure the stock CIS pumps are capable of.

The 924 is actually a very well suited car for drifting, as it not only has almost perfect weight distribution, but a good polar moment of inertia. You'd really only need new springs, shocks and swaybars to turn the 924 into a competent drifting car.

Contrary to popular belief, especially the current popular "drift trend", you don't need much power to drift. Real drifting is about car control, being able to manage inertia when the car is at the limits of it's traction, to get the tail out a little extra bit. A very important part of drifting is understeer, which is used to stabilize the car while exiting a corner. Most of these "drifters" you see in magazines and in Option videos are just driving high powered cars and overpowering the tires, and using the emergency brake. The emphasis is more on countersteering and throttle control than corner pitch and braking, which are fundamentally more important than the angle of counter steer, or the throttle input. Throttle input should only be varied to correct during the corner for a less than perfect initial pitch, or turn in.

If you watch some vintage sports car racing from the 50s and 60s, you'll see exactly what I mean. They drove overpowered undertired cars at the limits, and the skilled drivers would often drift for many of the corners in the race, using weight transfer skills to control the attitude of the car during cornering.

Drifting is a tricky business, there are many ways to scrub off speed if you make a mistake, and if you have too much power, it becomes very easy to spin out.




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'81 931 in various states of assembly

[CBass]

In my opinion, the 944S2 or 968 3.0 engine would be a better choice for drifting than a SR20DET. It is largely a bolt in swap for a 924S or a 944, which although a little more pricey than a 924, gives you a potent 3 liter DOHC engine making as much as 238hp stock.

Being naturally aspirated, you have much better throttle response, and a linear torque curve. Turbochargers are all very well and nice for extracting more power out of less displacement, but a naturally aspirated engine that makes the same power and torque is always preferrable in my books, for the reasons above.

Last time I checked with 20th Street Auto, they wanted $2500 for 968 engine, complete with wiring harness and all engine related accessories. More expensive than an SR20DET, granted, but it means you wouldn't have to have any custom fabrication done to get it into the car.
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'81 931 in various states of assembly

[01edgeranger]

After talking to some engineers I think I may have found a way to do it.

With a rear transaxle you could make an adaptor plate what would fit to the driveshaft on one end and then bolt to the engine on the other.

As long as the driveshaft could support the added HP then it should be fine.

Next week i will have a team take a look at my car and then report to you the findings in a report.
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Josh Ball
2001 Ford Ranger
1979 Porsche 924
2002 Kawasaki Ninja
2003 Ford Focus
CEM - Team
2003.5 Mazdaspeed Protege
1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
2000 Toyota Celica

[Peter_in_AU]

one thing to consider is the engine height. Japanese engines tend to be BIG, put a Toyota/Lexus V8 beside an old small-block Chevy and the Japanese engine is HUGE.

Remember that the 924 engine is canted over 40degrees so there's not a lot of space between the crossmember and the bonnet/hood.

Measure before you buy.
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1979 924 (Gone to a better place)
1974 Lotus 7 S4 "Big Valve" Twin-cam (waiting)
1982 924 (As featured on Wikipedia)

Learn to love your multimeter and may the search be with you

[01edgeranger]

Peter_in_AU

Very good points, things you must think about.
Thanks for bringing those to the attention.

I'm checking everything out from top to bottom.
I can't have investors pissed when I say, my bad, didn't measure.


You guys know more about these cars then anyone I know.
My dad had one for years, but he never touched it. I just got mine and have not got into it alot yet.

If there is anything you guys know off the top of your head or through research from the years that could help me keep from making an A$$ of myself on the car please let me know.

I have not only been looking into the SR20DET, but this particular post is only about that engine.

Let me know if you think of anything.

Thanks
01edgeranger
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Josh Ball
2001 Ford Ranger
1979 Porsche 924
2002 Kawasaki Ninja
2003 Ford Focus
CEM - Team
2003.5 Mazdaspeed Protege
1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
2000 Toyota Celica

[ckiel]

having owned an S13 (1990 Nissan 240SX with Black top SR20DET W/an EST. 320 HP @ the wheels with heavy modifacation) I can tell you that yes the SR is a good motor but not good enough to swap in to a porsche. It would be a hell of a lot harder to upgrade certain parts on the engine once its in due to the space it would take up (In Example: Turbo's would be a major pain to upgrade). Also running piping for the intercooler would be a problem because of the lack of space. If you still have your mind set on doing this project... look into getting the motor and stuff from a place in Cinncinati called ZeroLift Autolabs. They are a great place with good overall pricing as well as GREAT products. www.zerolift.com. Just my 2 cents.

[troglodyte]

THought about the SR20DET swap but it does seem like the initial money saved on buying the engine would be eaten up by all the little odds and ends custom work to get everything to fit when compared to the initially more expensive 968 engine swap. The compact engine comparment has been mentioned several times so I would like to make sure that the 968 is a "direct bolt in" engine or will it require some custom work?

If it just goes in, then $2500 for an engine is not that expensive for "plug-n-play" action.

[Petrovich]

IMO if you go nissan, a turbocharged GA16DE would suit the car better... Not too powerful, reliable as rock, still gets you the 200+hp on stock internals, cheap, detonation-free, and o yeah, 35 mpg off-boost And I bet you'd have an easier time fitting it in the engine bay and mating it to Porsche's bellhousing and flywheel.

[WhoDak]

Troglodyte, head over to this thread on the Rennlist.

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=221429&highlight=924

This guy's been putting a 968 engine and transmission into his 924S. The 924S uses the 944 engine, so it's basically a step closer to swapping a 968. I know that putting a 944 engine into a non S 924 requires some modification of the crossmember for the mounts and such. It's a pretty complete log, you can check out some of the problems he had, I remember the master cylinder hung him up for a little while.

Also remember, if you're upgrading your engine, you'll want to bring your brakes up to par...if you're using it for drifting I'm not sure how much you'd want to up the suspension, but someone else could chime in for that.
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Mike
'82 924 N/A
'91 Toyota Pickup SR5 4x4 Xtra cab

[Trogdor]

CBass has the right idea... Seriously, a well matched suspension (I've ordered 350lb/in gc sleeves up front and 30mm torsion bars in rear, still looking for that damn '68 swaybar though), and fresh brakes will help more than thousands of $$$ for an engine swap. The rear trans/diff doesn't inhibit my ability to hold drifts... Actually, the balance makes me more confident to turn in at higher speeds without worrying about understeer. Just get out there and practice, I personally use a good deal of feint/lift throttle entry for higher speed (~60mph) corners. Anything under that I'm taking a late apex line, inducing the slide w/the brakes, then clutch kick to wind out my super sweet 100bhp to keep the back out. It'll become easier with another cylinder I hope. But the balance is what makes this car!

Eric

[sequential]

The SR 20 det might be too high for the hood line of the 924 , it is a good engine , So it will go where the 931 motor won't, but love to eat rocker arms .

[CBass]

Paragon products has your 968 swaybay. As well coilover kits, Koni yellows and your choice of springrates. You're also going to want a strut tower brace, and a roll cage. Definitely a roll cage.

http://www.paragon-products.com/Porsche_924_944_968_Suspension_Shock_Strut_Sway_Bushing_s/199.htm
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'81 931 in various states of assembly