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keefer4 · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 5 Location: Mitchell, IN

my car quite while driving for no known reason. It was fully warmed up and I have not had any issues with it previous to this. It is low miles, 41k, and I have new wires, plugs, fuel filter. It cranks but does not start. I replaced the fuel pump relay but it did not help. Where should I go from here?
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If you always do what you alway did, you will always get what you alway got.

Khal · Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:03 am Post subject:

My '81 Turbo did that trick. Turned out the fuel pump had died. Dunno about an '87 S, could be something different. Each year/model seems to have its own quirks and the S's have a completely different engine/fuel system.

Still, I'd check out the fuel pump.
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'80 924 Turbo

Neil924 · Joined: 18 Mar 2003 Posts: 4225 Location: Canada

Did it seem to quit within one second like you turned the key off or did it stumble and die over a few seconds?

I'm with Khally McNally, test the fuel pump. Do you have a Haynes manual? Or are you able to work on your car?

Vince Ponz · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 3581 Location: Florida

If not that try the ignition switch. It will fail during driving and sometimes will start. Easy fix and not costly. common problem. VW switch. Takes about 15 min to fix. Caused by age and heavy keys. Yes, heavy key chains.
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"Never let them see you sweat"
77.5 924 modified track car
79 931 Euro stock
88 924S SE
87 911 Targa stock

Khal · Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:05 pm Post subject:

Yeah, good point Vince, forgot about the ignition switch thing...

By the way, I should mention: When my fuel pump failed, the intial test I did was to just hit it with 12 volts and see if it spun up. It did, I could hear it working, so I just assumed it was OK... Wrong! It was buggered. You really have to test the flow, not just that you can hear it.
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'80 924 Turbo

alxch1n15 · Joined: 26 Nov 2004 Posts: 261 Location: Madison, Wisconsin

Caused by age and heavy keys. Yes, heavy key chains.
really? heavy key chains can cause that?[/quote]
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'81 924 n/a

Neil924 · Joined: 18 Mar 2003 Posts: 4225 Location: Canada

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

Suddenly quit without warning, and will crank, but not start are the classic symptoms of a broken timing belt.

When was the last time that you replaced the camshaft timing belt and the balance shaft belt? Belts must be changed every three years or 30K miles. You did not mention changing the belts or having the front of engine service performed (replace timing and balance shaft belts, pulleys and rollers, front of engine oil seals, and water pump).

Have you taken the timing cover off to check for broken belts, or easier yet, taken off the distributor cap and spun the starter to check to see if the ignition rotor is turning?

Have you checked for spark at the spark plugs? No spark could a symptom of a defective flywheel sensor, or defective DME.

keefer4 · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 5 Location: Mitchell, IN

The car quit suddenly, like turning the key off. I do have the hayne's manual for the 944, although mine only goes to 1986 if that makes any difference. I had the timing belt replaced several thousand miles ago. Plan to get the balance shaft belt replaced soon. Should the tensioner be replaced at the same time?
I will check for the rotor turning, check for spark, and test the fuel pump. How would I check the ignition switch?
How do I depressurize the fuel system if the car will not run?
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If you always do what you alway did, you will always get what you alway got.

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

Are you sure that you replaced the timing belt without replacing the balance shaft belt?

That would be very foolish, because when one belt breaks, it usually causes the other to break, or at the very least, jump timing or fall off. Either of which works out to be the same thing, bent valves at the least, and a ruined engine if a valve head breaks off, and wedges itself against the cylinder wall, and causes a cylinder wall crack when the piston comes up (several documented cases of this have occurred). Besides, you have to remove the balance shaft belt to get the timing belt off, and why would you remove and replace a belt that is past it's safe service life, to replace another belt that is also past it's safe service life?

Since the belts must be removed to replace the water pump of front of engine oil seals, and coolant and motor oil cause the belts to deteriorate, it is customary to replace those parts at the same time to avoid a belt failure or additional labor charges to replace those parts if they start to leak between belt changes.

The parts cost is a small portion of the cost of the labor to perform the front of engine service, and replacing all of the parts on the list will help prevent additional labor charges between belt changes.

It is also critical to retension the belts between 1K and 2K after new belts are installed because new belts stretch enough to jump time, fall off, or beat themselves to death against the inside of the timing cover if they are not properly retensioned after allowing for "break-in stretching".

keefer4 · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 5 Location: Mitchell, IN

I'm not sure why the garage didn't replace the balance shaft belt at the same time. I have the part and will be getting it put on.

I pulled the dist. cap and the rotor is turning. I also checked for spark on a plug and it does spark.

I tried to squirt a small amount of starter fuild into the intake and it turned over like it wanted to start. I suspect the fuel pump.

I am going to check that I am getting voltage to the pump first. We have lots of vermin in our garage and it could be the wiring. If it is getting voltage I will check the fuel pump output.
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If you always do what you alway did, you will always get what you alway got.

keefer4 · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 5 Location: Mitchell, IN

I checked the voltage at the fuel pump and it is seeing voltage. I have 2 questions.

1. do I have an in tank fuel pump also? In looking at several parts websites they show an in tank fuel pump listed as well as an external fuel pump. I don't see an wires going to the tank, only a fuel outlet hose.

2. where is the best place to check the fuel output - off the rail or at the exit of the pump? Doesn't gravity come into play at the pump exit?
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If you always do what you alway did, you will always get what you alway got.

Khal · Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:19 am Post subject:

keefer4 · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 5 Location: Mitchell, IN

I did not get fuel output. I proceeded to order and install a fuel pump and voilot! that cured the problem.

Thanks so much everyone for the assistance. Sorry for the slow reply, but work has been very pressing.
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If you always do what you alway did, you will always get what you alway got.