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924RACR

I've been tossing around the various options for putting my race 931 on-track. I suspect that for starters I'll just run a Bilstein suspension similar to my IT car, for cost's sake - very cheap.

However, it's got no adjustability, and I've been thinking of higher-end shocks. Leda has packages starting at around $1300 for all for corners. But those are non-remote-reservoir and single adjustable - not really much of an upgrade from the Bilsteins. I just found last night that the following source, Fast 44's (run by the Schardts, local club racers, very sharp guys), sells the Moton suspensions, and much to my surprise they have a Club Sport model which is pretty inexpensive:
http://www.fast44.com/suspension.html

In fact, at $2995, it's actually cheaper than the Ledas when comparing comparable units - remote-reservoir, double-adjustable, threaded body. The only differences, perhaps, are steel body (not sure, Ledas might be aluminum) and number of adjustments (7 each direction vs many more in the Ledas). If I really want more adjustments and Al bodies, they've got the full-race setup for just under $5kUSD.

But these are 951 setups. Rear is pretty straightforward to fit. I'm wondering about the fronts. The fronts are a complete strut, so they'll fit the strut mounts, I'm pretty sure. I'm just wondering about the bottom end, fitting the uprights. Does anybody know if the 951 has the same mounting to the strut as the 944?

Another option, which will likely happen eventually anyway, is to swap in 951S brakes. I'd likely do the alloy trailing arms in the rear as well, easy to do. But I'm not big on the alloy a-arms for the front, given what I've heard about the balljoints. So I'd like to keep the steel 924/944 a-arms. Then the only concern is will the 944 balljoint fit into a 951S upright. No concerns there about strut fitment; only question is are the balljoint shafts the same size. Anyone know?
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'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
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-nick · Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 2699 Location: Cambridge, MA

I thought the 951 units were sealed? The popular replacement is to cut the old strut out of the housing and drill a hole in the bottom of the housing. The replacements have some sort of mount on the bottom of the strut that uses the hole you drilled in the housing.

Also, you might want to be careful about the strut angle in front. The later offset cars used a strut bearing mount that is angled slightly whereas ours are flat. Not sure how this plays into your parts bin, but something to be aware of.

Hey- aren't you putting a GT bodykit on the 931 anyway?

nick

924RACR · Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:39 am Post subject:

No, this is a complete replacement of the strut, in its entirety - not an insert.

The car is not getting a GT bodykit - it's getting a GTR IMSA/LeMans bodykit.

I did get confirmation over on rennlist that the 944 and 951 have the same diameter balljoint shaft! Means that the 951 uprights should bolt on to our 924/944 steel a-arms! Makes it much easier for me...

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Vaughan Scott
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'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

macBdog · Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:57 am Post subject:

924RACR · Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:21 pm Post subject:

GT Racing.
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Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

Raceboy · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2327 Location: Estonia, Europe

My friend did a full 951 brake conversion on a 924NA (w/ 944 body kit), usual steel front arms fitted fine, in the rear he installed alloy trailing arms, looked great

And yes, you can install 951 struts on a 944 suspension, we sort of did that kind of thing with my other friends racing '67 911 (complete suspension redesign, all new mounts etc), we installed a 968 Sport option Big Brakes on that.
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924RACR · Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:44 am Post subject:

Excellent! The alloy arms shouldn't be too hard to find, though I guess the 951S brakes, being in higher demand, might be a little harder to get set...

Thanks!
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'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

CBass · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 2807 Location: Vancouver, Canada

You could always get regular rebuildable 951 struts and spindles to start with and then track down a set of M030 brakes later. Weren't the 951S brakes just the same as the 928 Big Blacks anyways?
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kaffine · Joined: 13 Jun 2003 Posts: 644 Location: Las Vegas

I'm working on converting my 931 to have 951 brakes. From what I have read the struts have a diffrent mounting at the knuckle on the 951 than the 944 at least the early 944. From what I undersand the 951 uses a thinner knuckle and slightly diffrent bolt spacing where the strut attaches.

I've got the front suspension off an 86 951 waiting to be installed on my 931. If you have the measurments for the strut to knuckle mounting on a 944 I'll take the measurements of the 951 parts. I might have time to tuesday to jack up my 924 and compare the parts but I'm not sure I still have alot to do before school starts. Are the struts the same between 4 bolt and 5 bolt 924 and the 944? If so it would make it easier since my 931 is already on stands.

I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to do for a speedo once I mount the 951 spindles.

What does it take to put alloy trailing arms on the rear?
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kaffine · Joined: 13 Jun 2003 Posts: 644 Location: Las Vegas

The ball joint size is the same for the 924 and at least the 86 951. I'll try check the strut to knuckle mount tuesday.
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924RACR · Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:36 am Post subject:

I don't even want any used struts; I'll be buying new race struts (Ledas). The major things I'll need are the uprights, spindles, hubs, and calipers. I'll naturally want new rotors too, not to mention pads and a new MC. I'm mainly just doing this for the brakes, anyway.

I believe you're correct about the strut mounting difference, early vs. late. The strut mounting is consistent on the 924, 931, and early 944 (pre-85.5).

To do the trailing arms, I believe they'll bolt up to the suspension, since they were used on the 924S. Perhaps gohim can confirm. I'm doing it to get the added track. I think the only major difference will be the shock mounting, using a larger diameter bolt. Rear shocks for the 951 would come with this larger dia bolt hole, so you'd either use those late shocks and bore out the upper hole, or use early shocks and bush the lower bolt in the shock. I will probably use late shocks and re-fabricate the upper mounting point (bore it out and reinforce it as well, since I'll be running coilovers tied into the cage).
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'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

kaffine · Joined: 13 Jun 2003 Posts: 644 Location: Las Vegas

The front strut to knuckle bolts are diffrent for the 86 turbo compared to the 924. The 86 aluminum a-arms apear to match the steel a-arms. The spindle, hubs, brake calipers would have to be changed to use struts for an 86 turbo.

I'm looking at the spindles I'm not sure if a hole will be able to be drilled for the speedo cable. It's not a straight shot because the strut is in the way. When I start back on the brake upgrade I'm going to pull the driver side spindle and take both the 951 and the 924 spindle to a machine shop to see if they can do it. It will be awhile before I make anymore progress on the upgrade I hurt my knee so I didn't make any progress this week on the car I still need to get the turbo installed and it to pass smog to be registered before I start tearing into it for the brake upgrade. I'm still trying to track down some calipers and rims I've had 2 auto parts stores order rebuilt calipers they come in and they are just 944 calipers not the 951 calipers and then they say they can be used in place of the 951 calipers.
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80 924
80 931

The best desciption of an atom boils down to something unknown is doing we don't know what.
Sir Arthur Eddington

Mikri184 · Joined: 12 Sep 2003 Posts: 746 Location: Ferndale, WA

I didn't read all the post so I am not sure this will help, I have a set of 951 front struts, That I have on my car. The Yellow Koni's that came from the factory, They are used, but they where in such good shape, I couldn't not. But how they mount to the spindle is a different story. The spindles from late 944's are alot different than early cars including the 924, Besides there is no hole for the speddo cable on the driver side. SO what I did, was elongate the lower bolt, I think I had to go down about half the bolt thickness, about 3mm-6mm. This needs to be done perfectly straight, The other issue I found is that the early spindles where they fit nto the strut, is too wide for the 951 strut, so I miled down about 1mm from both sides, in order to slip it in. Nothing was done that would effect the structure or the integrity of the parts. When I took it in to have it aligned, they had no problem doing so. So now I have a nice set of factory Koni adjustables from the 951 and they work awesome. Not quite what you are looking for. But thought it might help, Here is a shot of the set up once installed.

I removed a few brackets that I didn't need like the brake sensor bracket. And used a set of VW lowering springs. And my front end is very nice and tight and stiff. Made a huge difference at autocross.
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andrew · Joined: 26 Oct 2004 Posts: 3 Location: south africa

My car has had the complete suspension and related parts replaced with a race setup by one of the chaps here who deals in modified car racing. Its ready to accept the 944T brakes, which will be done as soon as the cash is available.

Suspension is fully adjustable, so it can be setup for each track that I go too, or for when I decide to drive the car to and from work (a little insane, but fun when there is no traffic).

The ride is brilliant, almost as good as my A6, and yet the car is quite capable of 1.1G with road tyres, and a little more (1.25G) with semi-slicks. Was money well spent, especially when I compare the corner speeds that I can manage when compared to when I drive a friends 944T. That said it was a little expensive.
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simsport · Joined: 06 Nov 2002 Posts: 573 Location: UK Warrington

Why 951 brakes?
I can understand on a road car but a light race car should stop just fine with the 931 brakes given decent pad compounds.
I have Porterfiled and vented/cross drilled discs and it stops great. The car weighs in at about 970 kilos.

Also, the bigger brakes means bigger wheels and a change of gearing.

Cheers
Simon
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