924Board.org

[D Hook]

"And i hear republicans complaining about "lack of respect" for the president and i laugh because they started the trend with Clinton... "



Nah...it started LONG before Clinton. You should go back and read some of the retoric said about Lincoln before and during the Civil War. History has been long filled with disrespect for the man or party in power. It's one of the greatest thing about this country; you can say what you think, as long as you don't make a threat against the president to do bodily harm. THAT will bring the feds down on you for sure.

[kye]

stu2j, since you asked about my views, i'll respond, but i'll also try and respect others opinions wrt this contraversial topic.. if I offend someone, i'm sorry and it's not intentional!

thinking about it, my problems aren't really with the US specifically, although the US seems to contain a lot of people behaving in ways that I don't respect.

things I am opposed to:
- the pursuit of money over everything else (including the environment and human rights)
- unprofessionalism in institutions (where power is abused for personal benefit)
- hostilities (warfare of all kinds) when other avenues haven't been fully explored

from what I see, the US seems to be a center (but definitely not the only one) for these kinds of activities. I get my information from documentaries (many sources, but includes michael moore), from newpapers and magazines (normally pointed out to me by friends), from various sources on the internet (columns, articles etc..) and from random sources (usually come upon by accident, such as hifi writers having a rant, or from many other interests) and from general people in forums such as this.
i'm also starting to expand my reading, but haven't really hit those areas yet.

I am the first to admit that I am not well informed, and that my information gathering isn't statistically random (hell, poor people in the US don't post on the net much from what I understand, let alone africans..) but when the information that you get raises questions that are not answered anywhere you look, I think that it's resonable to entertain the thought that there's something wrong.
I have gotten those sentiments from a number of things the US government has done over the course of my lifetime.

maybe there are very good reasons behind what they're doing, and maybe they're just not telling anyone, but I bet that if you investigated the impact that being a US president (of whatever party, I don't have preferences aligned with parties) I bet that you'd see have more overall benefit from the decisions that they make on behalf of everyone than the average persons benefits.

I am also the first person to admit that Australia seems to be following the line of allowing corporate interests to come before human insterests, and it dismays me that our country is valuing the same degenerate behaviours. it seems that england is in the picture as well.

maybe i've said too much, and maybe not enough...
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it's funny, but when they said "Anything is Possible", that's exactly what they meant....

[Stu2j]

What I was really interested in was your view of what you saw wrong in American politics specifically, but I'll address some of your concerns...

First, you shouldn't view America from the media. It would be like me trying to get an accurate picture of Australia from the "Crocodile Hunter". America is the most compassionate and generous nation ever to exist.

>>>- the pursuit of money over everything else (including the environment and human rights)

The environment is a delicate balancing act. For instance, do you pass tough regulatory restrictions that would shut down coal mines and put thousands out of work and devastate many local economies or do you try and fund research into better ways?

The same folks that hug trees and cry over the environment will put down fertilizers and pesticides so that they can have a beautiful lawn not caring that these contaminents are washed into the storm drain system and directly into the water supply.

It's a tough issue no matter where you live and there aren't easy answers.

Since the US leads the world on human rights issues, you would have to be more specific as to what you refer.

>>>- unprofessionalism in institutions (where power is abused for personal benefit)

This gets to personal issues rather than cultural. I don't know why power corrupts. It simply does. I would like to think that no amount of money could corrupt me but none of us can really answer that question until we are actually tasked with the decision.

It now appears that the UN and certain countries were corrupted by the humanitarian "oil for food program". Why? It's hard to explain.

>>>- hostilities (warfare of all kinds) when other avenues haven't been fully explored

You are just going to have to trust me when I tell you that "most" Americans are damn tired of trying to be the world's police force. Nobody wants a war and regardless of what you may have heard to the contrary, America has no desires beyond it's own borders.

For instance, if we tried to establish our own government or annex the country of Iraq, the American people would impeach the President. That's simply a fact. We will help the Iraqi people get on their feet and we will leave. Contrary to what you might have heard, we won't take any oil wells with us.

I don't know if the Bush doctrine is "the right thing to do". I do know that years of ignoring terrorist orgainizations resulted in what you saw on 9/11, on the trains in Spain, and in a School in Russia. At some point, the world must actually deal with the problem.
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-Stu
924 owner since 1988
924S owner since 2002
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[Stu2j]

Quickly....

For those of you who have seen "Farenhiet 9/11", at least see "Farenhype 9/11" to get some perspective.
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-Stu
924 owner since 1988
924S owner since 2002
Click here to view them:

[sandgroper]

Wow what a neat topic,i ask why khals comments have been withdrawn,are republicans the moderators on this board.

A bold statement to start with,I LOVE AMERICA,i am a resident alien (if your not a citizen your an alien go figure) and U.S. taxpayer.

People forget that George W only barely got elected to start with and under dubious circumstance as well,how is it that a man that cannot read one sentence without looking down to read the next sentence can ever be elected ,i think an i.q. test is now needed for presidential candidates.

Bush drags australia into the Iraq war and then throws a bone called the free trade agreement where the australian taxpayer gets to compensate sugar growers,the safest beef in the world growers get screwed for 16 years,and wants the american drug companies to have access to the aussie market so they can steal the savings of every aussie retiree they can.All this to an U.S. ally of ww1,ww2,korea and vietnam so we can sell holdens in america.What a joke.

Its the god bless america that really gets me,i interpret that as its o.k. to kill in the name of christianity,but not in the name of alah,by the way i am an atheist.An then to visit the pope,if that didnt inflame the huge muslim population i dont know what will.

Like it or not its another vietnam and bush has got everything so wrong its not funny,its like the fake thanksgiving turkey he paraded on his secret mission to iraq.Him and that turkey have got alot in common.

[D Hook]

IIRC, Vaughan has specifically stated no posts are edited for content by the admin. unless the language gets out of hand.

I'm curious to hear more about your "resident alien US taxpayer" status. I thought you hailed from NZ.

[Khal]

Nah, just being polite, sandgroper.

Agreed with jazz man and 924 turbo's re-post of diesel's comments -these things inevitably turn into a slanging match and that's not really what this 'board is for.

(I read the thread that diesel's comments came from, btw. Very interesting)

I'm just itchin' to let fly, though
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'80 924 Turbo

[D Hook]

Khal, you should be congratulated for your self control.

Go over to the off-topic thread on Rennlist. It's bloody over there. And I'm hoping it can stay over there, too.

[Khal]

I tell ya D Hook, it's tough... I gotta itchy CAPS LOCK finger!

(btw, can't get into the Rennlist OT forum... says "not authorised" or something?)
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'80 924 Turbo

[sandgroper]

[kaffine]

I watched an interesting debate last night. One topic they brought up was should other countries be allowed to vote for the US president since who is elected has an effect on other countries.
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80 924
80 931

The best desciption of an atom boils down to something unknown is doing we don't know what.
Sir Arthur Eddington

[Sleykin]

Seems only fair ... after all we "voted" on who would not be leader of at least one other country.
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Glenn Neff
Medford, OR
87' 924S

[Stu2j]

>>>People forget that George W only barely got elected to start with and under dubious circumstance

In this country, those with the most electoral votes wins. There is nothing "barely" about it. (President Clinton was elected the first time with far less than 50% of the popular vote. In fact, I think he was the most "unpopularly" elected President ever).

There was nothing "dubious" about it. President Bush was elected on the first count in all states and on all subsequent recounts. The only thing "dubious" was a candidate choosing to concede and then taking it back making the first charge that ballots were "confusing" to Floridians followed by a ludicrous request to hand count machine cards in only Democratic counties.

This set a terrible precedent and created a black mark in American history were none was necessary.

>>>i think an i.q. test is now needed for presidential candidates.

President Bush is a fighter pilot, an Ivy league grad, has a Harvard MBA, and was elected the Governor of Texas. Please feel free to post your "credentials" for comparison.

>>>Bush drags australia into the Iraq war

What a load of crap.

>>>Its the god bless america that really gets me,i interpret that as its o.k. to kill in the name of christianity,but not in the name of alah,

You should not comment on President Bush's "intelligence" and then post such an "interpretation". By and large, Americans hate being involved in foreign affairs. However, if you hit America, we tend to hit back... hard. Religion has nothing whatsoever to do with foreign policy. America is THE most tolerant nation on Earth.

>>>Like it or not its another vietnam

Do you really have an understanding of "V"ietnam? However, I agree that there is no such thing as a "politically correct" war. It is at the point where you try and turn war into a "civil action" that things tend to get worse.

You claim that President Bush has done everything wrong and that's ok as everyone is entitled to their opinion It would be nice however, if those (including Senator Kerry) who think everything was done incorrectly, would point out what they think the "right thing" was. Here's the hard part: You can't base your argument (as Mr. Kerry now does) on what you think you know today but instead on what was known at the time the very diffucult decision had to be made.

Have a good one and regardless of whom you support, please vote.
_________________
-Stu
924 owner since 1988
924S owner since 2002
Click here to view them:

[Eturbo924]

Yes I am registered to vote and will tomorrow.

the movie that people need to see is Fahrenhype 911.

http://www.fahrenhype911.com/

Unless you are so caught up in the lies that you think they can not stand up to the truth.

Go and get the movie and then see what you think.
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1992 968
2003 C4S
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[Eturbo924]

Oh by the way the other poster is correct that the children have predicted it almost every time. Since 1940 only been wrong twice. Hope they are not wrong this time. They voted for Bush!


http://teacher.scholastic.com/scholasticnews/indepth/election_countdown/activities/poll_pres/index_backup2.asp
_________________
1982 924
1992 968
2003 C4S
Parts Parts Parts and More parts.
E-mail me for parts you need!
Drive Fast!